THE solution to the (big) textures and servers problem

[Troy]

Damn. I do use a download manager (Flashget) and I get errors with it... guess it's just my bad luck.

I wish I could assist you further, but it's difficult to pin down the exact cause of your problem without being there. You may want to call your local phone company and have them test your line. ( BellSouth does this for free. ) Be sure to let them know you're using a 56k modem. Also make sure your modem's firmware is up to date with the latest protocol. ( v.92 IIRC? ) If your ISP has multiple connection points in your area, try them all. Also try using a different phonejack and/or CAT3 cable with your modem. ( Actually, you can use a CAT5 cable with RJ-47 jacks to help reduce interferance. )

Sorry guys, I fouled up my quotes and attributions, in my previous post,
I'll try harder/better in future

Having said that, Zip is much more ubiquitous and will be easier for newbies to handle ( In fact, IIRC doesn't XP have built in unzip tools? )

Now how do I get it to say that Troy said that bit

In the opening quote tag, you would use: quote="Troy"

[Malcolm]

In the opening quote tag, you would use: quote="Troy"

thanks Troy,
another of life's little mysteries solved

[Redfish]

Well, about the CRC errors. I've had them all!
And I used Internet Explorer, WSFTP, LeechFTP, Download Managers like download accelerator and Netvampire, and it really didn't matter which one I was using, I kept on getting those CRC errors. And it was always at the same point in the zip file that the error occured. No matter which program I used to unzip it(winrar, winace, winzip, XP's built in zip) The only solution I have (not a big solace to the 56k users) to download it again. My Mars 16K came out corrupt 2 times. But was perfectly fine the third one.

And Besides, when the files are shared through a P2P Network, I hope those CRC errors will be a thing of the past.

[Redfish]

I'm sharing the celestia stuff and textures on grokster or kazaa right now. Come download them and share. we should also make clear to ppl that they can find celestia on the file sharing programs

[chris]

I'm sharing the celestia stuff and textures on grokster or kazaa right now. Come download them and share. we should also make clear to ppl that they can find celestia on the file sharing programs

I'll post a notice about this on the main Celestia page tonight, with some info about the naming conventions that people are using. This should get a few more people exchanging textures and add-ons through file sharing programs.

--Chris

[Redfish]

Yes, first person to download the textures from me, but he doesn't know what celestia is! Help! :)
i'll talk him into it

[Troy]

Yes, first person to download the textures from me, but he doesn't know what celestia is! Help!
i'll talk him into it

LOL!!!

Well, it's a start.

[Malcoln]

I'm sharing the celestia stuff and textures on grokster or kazaa right now. Come download them

I usually use the gnutella p2p network (with Gnucleus or Gnotella as my client software) does this reach into the grokster and/or kazaa networks do you know? If so what filenames should I enter to search for ?

thanks,
Malcolm.

[Malcolm]

hmmm, !
I've just searched on 'texture' = no hits
'celestia' = celestia.mp3 ( is that one of us !?) also Celestial Soda Pop !! and lots more celestial things.
Then I found Redfish's post way back in the thread for celestia-tec-neptune-rings.zip but not found so far (

Perhaps we need to agree a standard file such as CelestiaGeekMalcolm.txt CelestiaGeekTroy.txt etc/similar that would list in it the files we have for downloading. That way we would have a longer string (CelestiaGeek) to search on and avoid false 'celestial' hits ? Summat like that anyhow. ? A txt file would also give some space to describe what the files were/who generated them etc.
(/teabreak)

[Malcolm]

Nothing found for 'celestia-'

Troy said earlier about the multiple John problem ! However if we used,say, 'CelestiaGeek' as the search string it would throw up all the Malcolm, Troy, John, John and if they were just short .txt files we could download and inspect each/all as we guessed fit, dunno ?
Still no neptune-rings :!)
I ought not to be here till tonight !

[Smirnov]

Celestia_<type>_<object>_<resolution>_<filetype>.zip

For example 'Celestia_texture_earthnight_8kx6k_dds.zip'

A bit long but pretty much says exactly what you're downloading before you do.

I've thought about having the author in the filename, but for finding files think it would be best just to include it in a readme file. As there is no good logical position to place it.

I do recommend using .zip as the compression type as this is the most universal compression type there is and is supported on just about everything OS on the planet.

As for the bandwidth, surely someone on this board must have big pipes! All you guys at university with your fancy 10Mb/s connections, shove a little box together and set-up an FTP server. It's not hard, and you don't need a blazingly fast machine a little P200 will do!

[Troy]

Argh! Note to all: Pressing Escape while in this forum's editor will undo your changes and I don't know how to redo them. Be careful.

Perhaps we need to agree a standard file such as CelestiaGeekMalcolm.txt CelestiaGeekTroy.txt etc/similar that would list in it the files we have for downloading. That way we would have a longer string (CelestiaGeek) to search on and avoid false 'celestial' hits ? Summat like that anyhow. ? A txt file would also give some space to describe what the files were/who generated them etc.

If using the naming convention I suggested earlier in this thread, you should be able to search for celestia-. This will eleminate false hits and keep everyone from having to keep one file as a search beacon. Plus, I personally believe we should place all descriptive information in the filename itself. Maintaining a text file of what's currently available on someone's system could become quite a chore down the road and might scare off someone who otherwise would be happy to share the files and bandwidth on thier system.

Celestia_<type>_<object>_<resolution>_<filetype>.zip

This naming scheme limits you to placing each 'product' in it's own zipfile. For example, I had planned on releasing a Neptune pack which would contain:

- A Neptune texture
- Neptune's Rings texture
- A Triton texture
- The Dark Asteroid texture ( for the lesser moons )
- A ssc file to put it all together

This pack would have multiple types ( ssc & textures ), for multiple objects ( neptune, triton, etc ), at various resolutions. By leaving the description up to the publisher, I can just use celestia-tec-neptune-pack.zip to keep them all together and everyone will know what it is.

I've thought about having the author in the filename, but for finding files think it would be best just to include it in a readme file. As there is no good logical position to place it.

I don't mean to be so disagreeable, but I feel that the author is essential to the filename. A perfect example is Triton. Vic Tannenberg has a 2k Triton texture available in jpeg format. I also have a 2k Triton texture in jpeg format. Using your suggested filename format, both our products would have the exact same filename, and the person downloading it would have no idea which one they were getting until it was too late. By adding the author's name, it's easy for the downloader to select the correct file.

[Redfish]

Dear Malcolm. Unfortunately the grokster and kazaa are not accesible from gnutella. I might install the new morpheus v2 that does have acces onto the gnutella network.

In kazaa you can add a description to the file, if you enter a word that's in the description or other details it'll show
have celestia in keywords and details of them in more info.
so if you enter it in kazaa or grokster you should find it eventually.

[Malcolm]

Dear Malcolm. Unfortunately the grokster and kazaa are not accesible from gnutella.

Thanks Redfish, that would explain why I could not find 'celestia- ' today !
So, it looks as though we not only need to define a standard filename/search convention, but also the "preferred" p2p network !
(offtopic)
A bit offtopic, but just quickly in case,,, I have read lots of bad things about Kazza, something to do with a lot of excess bagage installed on one's computer ( adware or spyware ?) I dont know the details nor if it is true,, because gnutella seems to work well for me so I didnt go down the kazza road yet. I only mention it 'just in case' so that you can investigate if you have not heard of this before.
The gnutella network has itself got a bad press because of the copyright/napster thing. But the freeware/opensource softwares themselves dont seem to have a security problem.
Morpheus 2 is also collecting its following of deprecators ! It seems that the core that the new one is using is year-old non-updated ?
See for example the "Morpheus 2.0 but not yet" thread in alt.gnutella
(/offtopic)

[Malcolm]

Argh! Note to all: When typing one's name be sure not to make a typo, it looks very incompetent !
When I typed Malcon I didnt mean it , put it down to either advancing senility or delirium tremens

Anyway, yes I agree with most of Troys thoughts but with respect :-
when I said "...Geek.." I also said "such as" and "etc/similar", meaning that it was an example only !
Troy's " - " serves the same purpose except that it is a _common_ and logical delimiter, mine is so stupid that it would be unlikly to be used by anyone else or any other group !

I would caution against doing a package all-in-one file if the individual files can stand alone. For example someone on 56k dialup might like to take a look at Troy's Triton without needing to take Neptune and the rings etc ?
Just a little thought
but perhaps I have misunderstood what Troy meant ?

[Troy]

Anyway, yes I agree with most of Troys thoughts but with respect :-
when I said "...Geek.." I also said "such as" and "etc/similar", meaning that it was an example only !

I didn't take it as anything other than an example. I'm sorry if I gave another impression.

Troy's " - " serves the same purpose except that it is a _common_ and logical delimiter, mine is so stupid that it would be unlikly to be used by anyone else or any other group !

I think I see what you mean. When I preformed my initial 'celestia' search on WinMX all the results were for the word 'celestial'. I didn't expect anyone to find 'celestia' by itself, but since you did find 'celestia.mp3' it stands to reason that we could possibly also find 'celestia-' duplicates. Perhaps we could try 'celestia-pak', 'celestia-addon', or 'celestia-pack'? These should be safe. ( I hope. )

I would caution against doing a package all-in-one file if the individual files can stand alone. For example someone on 56k dialup might like to take a look at Troy's Triton without needing to take Neptune and the rings etc ?
Just a little thought but perhaps I have misunderstood what Troy meant ?

No, that is exactly what I meant, although for my Neptune related material I imagined having both the pack and the individual components available. Perhaps better examples would be someone with a fictional universe, or a man-made satelite pack? I imagine that many people ( including myself ) would prefer to download these types of items as a unit rather than downloading numerous mini packages. So, I can see where both types of packages would be useful.

As far as which network to use, my hope would be that Celestia addons become available on all the popular P2P networks. Due to the ever changing landscape among P2Ps ( getting shut down, finding out about spyware, etc ) we would be wise not to put all our eggs into one basket. This is partialy why I suggested a communications channel among distributors. We can then keep track of what everyone else is sharing and on what networks:

"Hey, Joe Shmo just sent me a new earth pack and it's available on my gnutella share. If you want it for your share let me know."

"I'm not going to be able to share over OpenNap anymore. Can anyone else take over?"

This can help distributors keep things running smoothly. Chris, perhaps a Sourceforge mailing list could be used for this when the time comes?

Having said all this, I recommend that Windows users give WinMX a try. I used to use Gnutella but it was difficult for me to get/keep connected, and I would frequently have trouble even finding other users to connect to. WinMX doesn't contain spyware ( that I can find ), has file resume, multipoint transfers, chat, can also connect to OpenNap people, etc. The only downfall IMHO is it's lack of a Linux port.

All and all, I'm glad to see interest in this wonderful idea ( props to Redfish ). Like Chris, I'd prefer to see a central repository for all things Celestia, but in the absense of such resources this is the next best thing.

[Malcolm]

Troy wrote
all sorts of interesting things with which
Malcolm can not disagree
hehee, yes very good Troy,
in particular

Like Chris, I'd prefer to see a central repository for all things Celestia, but in the absense of such resources this is the next best thing

and like me also, perhaps with a mirror or two if that could be arranged to relieve the bandwith problem on a single one ?
But I especially favour that over the p2p thing because we know that if Chris or one other of us host a file or links to it we have some benifit from that persons previous experience with the particular file in question.
However, with p2p one does not know what one is getting till it is all downloaded and even then sometimes the err, how shall I say,,, the file may not be entirely to one's liking ? !

Thanks for the heads-up to WinMX, I will investigate.

[Malcolm]

the err, how shall I say,,, the file may not be entirely to one's liking ? !

Perhaps I should not have been so cryptic :
what I was thinking was like this ,,, I have, for fun, a texture which covers a planet with grass and on that grassland are hords of rabbits bearing an uncanny resemblance to one of my daughters pets ,,, all jolly good fun for the family !
but one need not strain the imagination too much to vizualise what could be distributed in the name of a good texture ?
I mean, ok one should not be in the p2p kitchen if one cannot take the heat, but it would save time if we could incorporate some sort of ident., or confidence-level, with the stuff and I cant think how that could be achieved at the moment (on p2p I mean)???

[Troy]

Troy wrote
all sorts of interesting things with which
Malcolm can not disagree
hehee, yes very good Troy,

ROTFLMAO!!!

I couldn't have asked for a nicer summary.

[Troy]

Perhaps I should not have been so cryptic :
what I was thinking was like this ,,, I have, for fun, a texture which covers a planet with grass and on that grassland are hords of rabbits bearing an uncanny resemblance to one of my daughters pets ,,, all jolly good fun for the family !
but one need not strain the imagination too much to vizualise what could be distributed in the name of a good texture ?
I mean, ok one should not be in the p2p kitchen if one cannot take the heat, but it would save time if we could incorporate some sort of ident., or confidence-level, with the stuff and I cant think how that could be achieved at the moment (on p2p I mean)???

I understand and agree completely. If we were to have a full blown site, we could have preview screenshots, user comments for each item, user ratings, etc. Actually, if I could think of any one site that does all this now, it would be http://apps.kde.com ( Except that they do it for KDE applications, of course. ) But if you go in and look at the resources available when you click on a listing, all kinds of feedback becomes available so the user can make an informed decision before clicking the download button.

Yes, a Celestia version of this would be wonderful indeed.