64k Blue Marble

[selden]

Anonymous Guest,

It would help a lot if you registered and logged in so we know we're responding to the same person. And you can edit your posts.

For an immediate, but not substantial, improvement you need to defragment the disk drive (to improve access to the VT tiles) and increase the size of your paging file (for when Celestia grows larger than your main memory).

For more long-term improvement, you need to add more memory to your system and upgrade to a faster disk drive.

Although the individual tiles are small, if you look at a significant fraction of the globe, Celestia has to load into memory just as much data as if you were using individual full-resolution images. That's many MegaBytes.

Added slightly later:
You can watch Celestia grow by running Task Manager and selecting the Performance page. You'll see its performance take a nose-dive when system usage exceeds the size of your main memory.

[Harry]

Any ideas on how to get a smoother transition

Using DDS instead of JPG would help a lot, they load much faster. Seems they are only available up to 32k (is 64k worth it?), see here:
http://www.celestiamotherlode.net/catalog/earth.html

(hm, my 32k DDS is in the "Bump, Normal and Specular Maps" section )

Harald

[t00fri]

I just want to let people know that I converted Jestr's 64MB JPG VT's (level0...level10) into

24bit color DXT3 VT's

with the command line tool 'texconvert' that I coded some time ago. It is based on the latest CVS version of the DevIL-1.66-CVS library (further debugged by me) and works >10-20 times as fast (and without size limitation) than the nvdxt tools.

The DXT3 quality is excellent and the VT loading time is dramatically improved compared to the original JPGs

Clearly, because of the low compression rate of DXT3 this is nothing for general download.

I just cannot understand why so many people have this intrinsic resistance to LEARN, how to compile simple command line tools themselves and just do the conversion locally.

I have offered my source code several times in the past, but most people simply seem too lazy to learn new things, it seems...The interest was fairly low. So I don't bother anymore...

Even with my slow 1Ghz PIII machine, the entire conversion took less than about 30 minutes while I went out for a good Dim Sam meal;-) Jestr's DXT3 VT's now are 4.2 GB in size;-)

Bye Fridger

[Guest]

I think most people would be perfectly happy to use your tool toofri, but the ability to compile code is not exactly built into windows. Most folks aren't willing to gather up a compiler, source code, libraries, and etc for one time usage.

Why don't you just offer a pre-compiled version folks could download, or upload it to the Motherlode? Or have you already?

[t00fri]

I think most people would be perfectly happy to use your tool toofri, but the ability to compile code is not exactly built into windows. Most folks aren't willing to gather up a compiler, source code, libraries, and etc for one time usage.

Why don't you just offer a pre-compiled version folks could download, or upload it to the Motherlode? Or have you already?

Anonymous Guest,

I usually know what I am talking about...

There is no reason not to compile programs in Windows. And that free of charge.

The Cygwin Linux Layer http://www.cygwin.com

--is almost trivial to install
--has an ingeniously simple update facility over the net,
--is very stable and
--allows to mix Windows and Linux applications!
--allows to switch between a full Linux environment and Windows with a click!
--allows even to compile OpenGL programs with Windows hardware support

Comandline tools are a trivial compiling task.

I am telling this, since people who are interested in VT fabrication need a good shell (zsh, bash) anyway for executing the various scripts.

I am usually against this Windows philosophy of "click and run". When people start from the source code instead, they will be able to answer many arising questions themselves (by looking into the code) and they can implement very soon their own modifications.

I simply do not have the time for that.

Bye Fridger

[fabm100]

hello,

I'm trying to get the last megabites of Jestrs Earth.PNG(levels0-5) via the emule network, but since last friday there isn't any complete source available. Also there is no possebility to connnect to the ftp server.

Is there any chance to get the missing part, perhaps from one whom already got Jestrs files. It would be great if anyone can share it on emule or can start a torrent, or any other way...

thx

[jestr]

I think it was me you were connecting to but I have been having problems with my server lately.Hope fully it will be working again soon.Jestr

[danielj]

Sorry,I put all in the Extras insides Jestr JPG,but JestrEarthNight JPG isn?t working.The JestrNight is inside texture>hires,exactly like the estructure of directory shown.In any case,my structure is :

JestrEarth JPG
|..JestrEarth.ssc
|..textures
|..hires

hires
|..JestMarble.ctx
|..JestrEarthNight JPG
|hires
|..JestrNight.ctx JPG

hires
|..level0
level 1
level 2
level 3
level 4

Can you help me?

I think it was me you were connecting to but I have been having problems with my server lately.Hope fully it will be working again soon.Jestr

[jestr]

Hi Daniel-I think you may have the folder structure a little messed up.It should go like this

Celestia/extras/JestrEarth JPG/textures/hires
|
|_JestrMarble JPG/levels0-10
|_JestrNight JPG/levels0-4
|_JestrNormal JPG/levels0-4
|_JestrSpecular PNG/levels0-8
|_JestrMarble JPG.ctx
|_JestrNight JPG.ctx
|_JestrNormal JPG.ctx
|_JestrSpecular PNG.ctx

This works for me,Jestr

[Guest]

If I put like this,the textures mixed.Example:Europe is mixed with Havai.There is sobreposition.Other thing;do you think 512 MB of RAM and 128 MB of VRAM is enough for your monster texture?Because texture load is too slow...

Hi Daniel-I think you may have the folder structure a little messed up.It should go like this

Celestia/extras/JestrEarth JPG/textures/hires
|
|_JestrMarble JPG/levels0-10
|_JestrNight JPG/levels0-4
|_JestrNormal JPG/levels0-4
|_JestrSpecular PNG/levels0-8
|_JestrMarble JPG.ctx
|_JestrNight JPG.ctx
|_JestrNormal JPG.ctx
|_JestrSpecular PNG.ctx

This works for me,Jestr

[rconn2]

Anonymous Guest,
There is no reason not to compile programs in Windows. And that free of charge.
The Cygwin Linux Layer http://www.cygwin.com
Bye Fridger

Fridger: I also don't understand why a compiled version of your tool can't be provided. Some of us aren't Unixites... I have to use a little at work, but never fully climbed the learning curve and there's just so many hours in a day. I have Visual C++... it just doesn't make sense that I have to install another C compiler. As for it all being trivial... uh yeah we've all heard that before

I installed the Gimp... the help doesn't work (apparatly a bug)... and for the comparable nVidia plugin all I can find is source and a lot of can-of-worms type ordeal for something that should be provided compiled (that is if whoever cares actually wants anyone other than a small clique to use it). No wonder Adobe charges almost $700 for PhotoShop (and people pay it!).

Anyway, if I have time, I'll try the Cygwin.

BTW, I tried the Nvdxt tool (with the link on this thread). A 169KB JPG converted to around 700KB dxt1 and 1366KB dxt3. Whew! About a 4x increase for dxt1 and 8x for dxt3. Does that sound right? I'm curious to see if converting Jestr'sMarble will improve loading. But... seems to me the jpg or other compression makes more sense (why waste HD space w/ uncompressed graphics and then these large files have to be loaded).

[t00fri]

Anonymous Guest,
There is no reason not to compile programs in Windows. And that free of charge.
The Cygwin Linux Layer http://www.cygwin.com
Bye Fridger

Fridger: I also don't understand why a compiled version of your tool can't be provided. Some of us aren't Unixites... I have to use a little at work, but never fully climbed the learning curve and there's just so many hours in a day. I have Visual C++... it just doesn't make sense that I have to install another C compiler. As for it all being trivial... uh yeah we've all heard that before

I installed the Gimp... the help doesn't work (apparatly a bug)... and for the comparable nVidia plugin all I can find is source and a lot of can-of-worms type ordeal for something that should be provided compiled (that is if whoever cares actually wants anyone other than a small clique to use it). No wonder Adobe charges almost $700 for PhotoShop (and people pay it!).

Anyway, if I have time, I'll try the Cygwin.

BTW, I tried the Nvdxt tool (with the link on this thread). A 169KB JPG converted to around 700KB dxt1 and 1366KB dxt3. Whew! About a 4x increase for dxt1 and 8x for dxt3. Does that sound right? I'm curious to see if converting Jestr'sMarble will improve loading. But... seems to me the jpg or other compression makes more sense (why waste HD space w/ uncompressed graphics and then these large files have to be loaded).

What you want is that I waste a lot of time and fuzz around with installing the DevIL library for Windows, compile my patched version first with Visual Studio and then compile my tool with that library in native Windows mode.

I wrote the tool, checked it and eliminated bugs in DevIL. My code can easily be compiled under Linux and Cygwin. I think I did my share!

There are enough other Windows users who could well volunteer to handle the VC++ compilation. Notably, I have neither the time nor the motivation to answer all the resulting 'failure reports' of pure Windows 'click'-users...

All I am saying is: for many years it has been good practice that Unix users /learn/ to compile themselves whatever they want to use.

Meanwhile the same can be achieved via Cygwin free of charge under Windows with comparatively little effort.
I do not see why Windows users should be spared from this additional and instructive effort of /learning/ how to do their own compilations.

Bye Fridger

[DaveMc]

FWIW, I was able to convert Jestr's 64K VT to dds with the Nvidia Photoshop plugin. The lastest plugin version supports action scripts in Photoshop which made it go pretty fast. For some reason I've had problems with previous versions.

If it's OK with Jestr and there is enough interest, I can contact Joe and see if the Motherlode has enough space for the files. The level 1-5 zip file is 325 MB and the level 6-10 is 99 MB.

Dave

[alphap1us]

Consider me contacted.

I spit upon files less than 500MB.

Get them on the server, Stat!

Cheers,
Joe

[DaveMc]

Joe, you da man! Hopefully I'll get a chance to FTP them to you first thing (a.k.a stat) at work tomorrow where I have T1 access. I don't dare try it at home with a dail-up slowdem, it would probably melt.

If I did everything right the directory structure within the zip archives should be exactly as Jestr had it. The only change is to the .ctx so it points to dds instead of jpg files, the original readme files are included.

The only difference is the zip files will have "DDS" in the name instead of "JPG" just to differentiate between them but eveything inside will still be occording to Jestr's JPG directory structure.

In the interest of keeping file size down they were converted to dxt1 so there will be a very slight, basically undetectable - at least to me, resolution loss. If people find this to be a problem I can reconvert them to dxt3.

Hope this makes sense because it's confusing the heck out of me!

Dave

[Dora]

Hi,

I would like to convert my jpeg's into dds. Is it enough to simply convert all installed files or do I have to edit/adapt something?

Ciao
Dora

[rconn2]

I also converted to dds using the nvdxt tool (after 1st changing to tga).

The nvdxt tool seems buggy. When you use argument -24 or -32 with dxt1c or dxt3 (i.e. -24 dxt1c or -24 -dxt1c) it states unknown format, using dxt1 (and yet converts to dxt3). So, -24 and -32 don't work.

Anyway, I managed to convert to dxt1 with each file 683K.

Basic question: what are mips and do I need them? When I use -nomips the dds files are smaller (a 1366K dxt3 is reduced to 1025k; a 683K dxt1c reduced to 513K).

P.S. t00fri: I did install cygwin.

[rconn2]

Dave: I converted to dxt1's. When I switch with the jpg alternate while staring at the screen, I can't detect any change at all. (I have a GeForce FX Go 5650 in case the card is of relevance.)

[selden]

Rconn2,

You might want to take a look at the Web page http://www.lns.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/colortest.html

There are bound to be some differences, but they may be subtle enough that they don't matter.

[DaveMc]

Hi Dora,

I would like to convert my jpeg's into dds. Is it enough to simply convert all installed files or do I have to edit/adapt something?

If you have Photoshop, the Nvidia plugin works quite well. Basically like resaving a jpg as any other image format. The latest version of the plugin seems to work great. Some of the versions, including the latest, also work in PaintShop Pro.

I haven't used any of the command line tools like nvdxt or Fridger's tool so I can't speak to those.

Dave