Celestia Forums

Visual Studio no longer works...such a suprise and a shock I know how dependable microshaft is its a shock...

I need something like visual studio that will allow me to write 32 bit apps and use openGL...WITHOUT having to buy something....considering if I do im charging for downloads of the program...so open source must remain open source across the charts...

Otherwise the doctor who project will be closed permanently and I will remove the downloads off of sourceforge considering theres no use without a compiler...not to mention me leading up to adding my own hacks to celestia...it seems I have to learn how to get around windows retarded way of installing programs before I learn anything else...which is impossible as what happens today will NOT happen tomorrow on windows...

I suppose if there is no other alternative I will move exclusively to linux and never use windows again...and in this case I will have to relearn everything so this doesnt excite me either...al in all I am ready to scrap the whole damn thing as its crap programming in the first place...I decided today to start from the beginning and ended up with nothing...trying to fix vc because it keeps on locking up I get the typical windows response 'whah I cant do it!'...so it seems I may have to write it all in Java without the use of OpenGL considering Java is limited and would never be as easy as opengl and never do the extentions opengl does whats left if I cannot get a decent compiler??

^ me

Ras',

Have you tried using Cygwin?

It provides a Linux environment under Windows, including just about all of the standard software development packages: cvx, C++, make, etc.

This gives you most of the advantages of Linux software development without having to do Linux system administration.

I have never used it but you might like to look at dev c++
http://www.bloodshed.net/

I think if you look for it you will find that the visual studio compiler is also freely available. (command line that is)

selden wrote:Ras',

Have you tried using Cygwin?

It provides a Linux environment under Windows, including just about all of the standard software development packages: cvx, C++, make, etc.

This gives you most of the advantages of Linux software development without having to do Linux system administration.

The problem is its still windows...I suppose its only a matter of time before linux becomes the standard os as things are going...considering its suicide to use internet explorer on the internet these days...not to mention windows...Using mozilla does cut back on the problems on the net but if one were using anything other than dialup I would recommend moving to linux...completely...

Ras',

Unfortunately, the obscurity of Linux system administration is still one of its major handicaps. The differing user interface GUIs create their own problems. Everything changes rapidly and there are some serious compatibility issues among the different Linux distributions.

Also, don't expect to have stable, high performance OpenGL driver support for cutting-edge graphics cards.

Just ask any Celestia code developer.

If you really want to go with Linux, but you want a stable environment where you can do application development and not system developement and debugging, then you're pushed toward one of the stable commercial distributions. And you have to make sure that every detail of your hardware configuration is one that it supports.

(The one I'm most familiar with is Red Hat. That's not saying much about my familarity, but I know enough about it that I am not in the least interested in installing Linux at home. I do enough computer administration at work, thank you very much.)

Rassilon wrote:Visual Studio no longer works...

Can you explain what "no longer works"? What version are you using? Have you updated it with all the free patches?

selden wrote:Unfortunately, the obscurity of Linux system administration is still one of its major handicaps.

I personaly don't find it any more obscure than Windows. Even less, if something breaks at least I can fix it, with Windows you're left with "format, reinstall". That is simply not acceptable.

selden wrote:The differing user interface GUIs create their own problems.

Just like you've got three or four different widget sets under Windows XP. None of which offering layout management.

selden wrote:Everything changes rapidly and there are some serious compatibility issues among the different Linux distributions.

True, if you're an independant software creator, supporting the wide range of distributions can be a major problem. If your creations are OSS your best bet is to have your software included in the distributions, that way you don't have to worry about the packaging issues. Celestia for example is already included in SUSE, Linspire, and Mandrake at least.

selden wrote:Also, don't expect to have stable, high performance OpenGL driver support for cutting-edge graphics cards.

Since ATI and NVidia both release drivers for Linux that's not a worry any more. Driver stability under Linux has no reason to be less good than under Windows. According to NVidia 80% of the code is common to the Linux and Windows versions of their drivers.

I have an NVidia and I've never had a kernel crash, and I might add that NVidia's drivers setup script is excellent. And you don't need three reboots and the sacrifice of a baby lamb at the full moon to update them.

selden wrote:If you really want to go with Linux, but you want a stable environment where you can do application development and not system developement and debugging, then you're pushed toward one of the stable commercial distributions. And you have to make sure that every detail of your hardware configuration is one that it supports.

If your computer is less than, say, 5 years old, there is very very little chance that you'll encounter hardware support issues. Everything is detected during the installation, you simply may have to download the graphics drivers afterwards since they can't be freely distributed.

Ras', you can always give it a try. It won't cost you much, just a couple of CD-Rs. If you make the jump, try KDevelop, it's not Visual Studio yet, but it's good enough.

Christophe,

It's also a different mindset

Microsoft maintains my system software for me. (or doesn't ) so I don't have to. Like I wrote, I do system software maintenance for a living. I do not want to do it at home.

I'd rather make Addons for Celestia

It's good to hear that Nvidia and ATI are now providing drivers for Linux for ther new cards in a reasonable amount of time. That used not to be the case.

Many of the more common device types are much more standardized than they used to be.
However, it still is the case that if you assemble your system from parts, you must make sure that the pieces that you buy actually are supported by the distribution of Linux that you plan to run and that the appropriate drivers actually are available.

But that's not much different from the situation with Windows. The newest devices are not supported by the off-the-shelf boxed operating system. You have to get the right drivers from the hardware vendor.

I have an NVidia and I've never had a kernel crash, and I might add that NVidia's drivers setup script is excellent. And you don't need three reboots and the sacrifice of a baby lamb at the full moon to update them.

The runes would read ctrl alt delete

I do system software maintenance for a living. I do not want to do it at home.

Exactly why I get frustrated...but then the fight continues no matter what...unfortunately this was all due to slak jawed yokels with virus programming skills...or lack of security skills on microsofts part....it seems due to a recent security patch VC 6 has issues with installs unless you disable the software analyser under enterprise tools on a custom install...ahh those unexpected deceptions...gladly the poor lamb was spared in this instance and a simple rain dance appeased the microsoft gods of deception...

At any rate Im back but still am having issues with VC going into an infinate build loop randomly...meaning it builds and stops on errors only occasionally...if there are no errors it builds without a hitch but if there are errors it builds and keeps on building and building...and building...*invisions a goat with drums*...This never happened before I loaded in service pack 4 for win 2000...It seems microsoft is good at something....screwing up anything I like to use...

There is a service pack for visual studio. sp5 I think.

The Visual C++ main page is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/.