Translation of CELESTIA

Borg Collective · Post #1by **Borg Collective** » 24.11.2002, 23:04

We aren't familiar with programming but we need a help.

We want to translate CELESTIA from English to Croatian.
Problem is that we don't know what and how to do it. Any
help regarding this question/issue will be welcomed. Thanks!

Borg Collective · Post #2by **Borg Collective** » 25.11.2002, 08:48

We have downloaded the source code.

MKruer · Post #3by **MKruer** » 25.11.2002, 10:13

I don’t think there is going to be an easy way to convert the language. You need to dig into the program and manually edit the files to fit the language you need. Celestia was not designed with multilingual capabilities in mind. This possible could be developed in the future but it would take a lot of work to get it to work right. All current words would have to be placed in a list and then the program would have to point to those words. Then you just set an equivalency option, and that should do it. A good example in the Gens emulator for Sega Systems http://go.to/gens

Borg Collective · Post #4by **Borg Collective** » 25.11.2002, 10:57

All we want is to translate the menu options, descriptions of the planets and those "FOLLOW", "CENTER" and other commands. We don't want to edit the program.

Post #5by **Christophe** » 25.11.2002, 15:48

Support for other languages is something I'd like to see in Celestia as well. I'm probably going to implement it for the KDE interface for 1.2.6, and for the engine itself there aren't that many strings so it should be relatively easy to do. Some other things would be a lot more difficult to translate like objects and constellation names.

I wonder if there is any good cross-platform i18n system?

--
Christophe

Post #6by **t00fri** » 25.11.2002, 21:59

Christophe wrote:Support for other languages is something I'd like to see in Celestia as well. I'm probably going to implement it for the KDE interface for 1.2.6, and for the engine itself there aren't that many strings so it should be relatively easy to do. Some other things would be a lot more difficult to translate like objects and constellation names.

I wonder if there is any good cross-platform i18n system?

--
Christophe

Is'nt this more the domain of commercial software with the idea to make money with people's 'lazyness' to learn and practice a universal language like English?;-)

I have no objections, of course, if anyone wants to invest lots of work into a multilingual Celestia. But in my view there are more rewarding improvements ahead...

Bye Fridger

Post #7by **Christophe** » 25.11.2002, 22:36

t00fri wrote:Is'nt this more the domain of commercial software with the idea to make money with people's 'lazyness' to learn and practice a universal language like English?;-)

Oh no! not again! ;-)

I think Celestia has a lot of educational value, it could be used in schools, astronomy clubs... i18n is a must have for these potential users. Of course Celestia is not a commercial software, but it's not a reason to ignore the non english speaking users.

Besides there really aren't that many strings to translate. Doing it consistently and rationally for all the platforms is going to be a headache, I know.

--
Christophe

Post #8by **t00fri** » 25.11.2002, 23:05

Christophe wrote:Oh no! not again! ;-)

I think Celestia has a lot of educational value, it could be used in schools, astronomy clubs... i18n is a must have for these potential users. Of course Celestia is not a commercial software, but it's not a reason to ignore the non english speaking users.

Besides there really aren't that many strings to translate. Doing it consistently and rationally for all the platforms is going to be a headache, I know.

--
Christophe

OK, I'll shut up;-)

But I am really curious knowing whether /schools/ still do exist in this world where the pupils are NOT taught English.
By watching Celestia's (English) output, those youngsters would have a great chance practicing what they have been taught....A /very educational/ value;-)

OK OK...

Bye Fridger

Rassilon · Post #9by **Rassilon** » 26.11.2002, 01:16

Good point...

HankR · Post #10by **HankR** » 26.11.2002, 02:27

It would be great to have a fully internationalized version of Celestia. All that's required is to find someone who's willing and able to do it. I think that's unlikely to happen, at least anytime soon. Even if Celestia used Java, which is cross-platform and has extensive support for internationalization, there would still be a lot of extra work involved. For most people, the (essentially cosmetic) benefit wouldn't justify the effort. It's just doesn't seem that hard to learn the small English vocabulary that Celestia uses. But if someone really wants to do it, they should go for it! In the end, like anything else, it's "just a simple matter of programming"!

- Hank

Post #11by **chris** » 26.11.2002, 03:00

Christophe wrote:Oh no! not again!

I think Celestia has a lot of educational value, it could be used in schools, astronomy clubs... i18n is a must have for these potential users. Of course Celestia is not a commercial software, but it's not a reason to ignore the non english speaking users.

I also think that internationalization of Celestia is a worthwhile effort.

Besides there really aren't that many strings to translate. Doing it consistently and rationally for all the platforms is going to be a headache, I know.

Cross-platform support is indeed the big problem . . . If Celestia only ran on one OS, I think translation of the UI to a few different languages would already be complete.

--Chris

HankR · Post #12by **HankR** » 26.11.2002, 03:44

Of course, we Mac users would be pretty annoyed if there were a Croatian version of Celestia before there was a version for Mac OS X! :-)

- Hank

Borg Collective · Post #13by **Borg Collective** » 26.11.2002, 16:57

First, some things needs to clear up:

Languages on Balcan peninsula...
...are more or less the versions of the same language. Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, Montenegrian - same language with small differences.

About use of other languages in "CELESTIA"
T00fry said that he thinks that translation of "CELESTIA" isn't a neccesary because English is a universal language. How many past generations have been learning English in their schools? In our region, Contries which formed after the collapse of former SFR of Yugoslavia in 1991, the Russian and then the German were the languages studied at school(s). We started our education in 1994 - after the collapse. So anyone born before 1984 would be learning Russian or German instead of English. Confused?

Education systems
Bosnian-Croatian-Serbian-Montenegrian education system differs from English one.

Education - No of grades - Duration - Foreign language(s)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Education - 8 grades - 8 years - English
High Education -- 2,3 or 4 grades (depends of the school chosen but mostly 4) - 2,3 or 4 years (mostly 4) - English (+ German, Latin where needed)
University (Faculty) Education ---- 3 or 4 grades (depends of the school chosen but mostly 4) - 3 or 4 years (mostly 4) - ?*We are not familiar*?

Basic Education is obligatory, High and University aren't.
Basic and High Education rating system consists of numbers from 1 to 5 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) where's 1 (bad) lowest and 5 (excellent) highest mark.
University (Faculty) Education rating system consists of numbers from 5 to 10 (5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) where's 5 (bad) lowest and 10 (excellent) highest mark.

Why do we want to translate "CELESTIA"?
- "CELESTIA" is written with advanced English (our opinion)
- First foreign language is introduced at 4th grade of Basic School Education
- Geography is added in 5th grade with the first major section "Space and Celestial Bodies"
- Older teachers and/or professors aren't familiar with English language
- Noone would learn a new language just for a "one lazy program" (no offence)

Our project: "Solar System - Our place in the universe"
We are planning to create a small, freeware encyclopedia of our Solar system and we would like to implement/include "CELESTIA" as a 3d (pre)viewer. That encyclopedia will be written on English and Croatian language with translating utility included with it for a easy and fast translation onto other languages. As soon as we finish it, you will be notified.

Someone asked why do I refer to myself as "We"?
Check out our Forum name - "Borg Collective" - definitly familiar to fans of "Star Trek". Why did we picked it? The race which refer to itself as "Borg" searches for... Well, If you are interested to find out more, follow this link:
>> http://www.strategyplanet.com/starmada/ ... shtml#borg <<

Rassilon · Post #14by **Rassilon** » 26.11.2002, 17:09

Did you frequent Armada Universe? If so what did you go by?

Post #15by **t00fri** » 26.11.2002, 17:17

Borg Collective wrote:About use of other languages in "CELESTIA"
Christophe said that he thinks that translation of "CELESTIA" isn't a neccesary because English is a universal language.

Poor Christophe;-), now you are even identified incorrectly as the source of "those" arguments...

Bye Fridger

Yes, I definitely have shut up.;-)

Post #16by **Christophe** » 26.11.2002, 18:27

chris wrote:Cross-platform support is indeed the big problem . . . If Celestia only ran on one OS, I think translation of the UI to a few different languages would already be complete.

Yeah, we should drop support for all platforms but Linux. Aren't Windows and MacOS more the domain of commercial software with the idea to make money with people's 'lazyness' to learn and practice a real OS like Linux? ;-)

Then we'll have to chose between Gnome and KDE, I've made my choice ! ;-))

--
Christophe

Post #17by **Christophe** » 26.11.2002, 18:34

t00fri wrote:Poor Christophe;-), now you are even identified incorrectly as the source of "those" arguments...

If people keep confusing me with you I think I'm going to shut up too! ;-)

--
Christophe

Post #18by **t00fri** » 26.11.2002, 20:11

Christophe wrote:Yeah, we should drop support for all platforms but Linux. Aren't Windows and MacOS more the domain of commercial software with the idea to make money with people's 'lazyness' to learn and practice a real OS like Linux? ;-)

Then we'll have to chose between Gnome and KDE, I've made my choice ! ;-))

--
Christophe

Somehow this sounds cute... Never looked at it this way, but I think I have read this sort of arguments somewhere already;-))

Anyhow, you have my full support!

Bye bye Fridger

Borg Collective · Post #19by **Borg Collective** » 26.11.2002, 20:14

An error has ocurred in one of our Data Nodes.
Dispatched 3591 drones to find and eliminate the error...
...
Error located and eliminated. String "Christophe" has been changed into "T00fry".
All systems funcional.

We are the Borg. Resistance is futile.

Post #20by **t00fri** » 26.11.2002, 20:18

Borg Collective wrote:Error located and eliminated. String "Christophe" has been changed into "T00fry".
All systems funcional.

We are the Borg. Resistance is futile.

H? h?, "T00fry" sounds even better than 'Christophe', let alone 't00fri'. However, I am usually not "fry-ing" anything.

Bye frydger