Qt

[Christophe]

Why should it be illegal to use proprietary libraries???

It is not that obvious, but you're right in the particular case of the IE rendering library, it falls under the exception of section 3 of the GPL:

However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable.

So you can use it but you can't distribute the DLL with the executable.

See: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs

[adamnieman]

Your project has really come a long way! It sounds great!

Is this something you are considering releasing to an open source home such as SourceForge, for additional development / assistance? Or just releasing as a set of DLLs and EXEs?

-Don G.

Thanks don. I am indeed planning to relaese the source code, which I suppose means finding a home for it on SourceForge. However, I wouldn't want development of WTTN to detract from development of Celestia. I think it will be a matter of updating WTTN with the latest Celestia code on a regular basis rather than parallel development. That is, WTTN developers will be Celestia developers 90% of the time. There are tweaks for Celestia that would make more of a difference for WTTN than Celestia. For example, I'd like to hide the labels of objects that are obscured by other objects. I'd also like to have orbits that pass in front of planets. The current situation confuses WTTN users a lot but is less of a problem for Celestia users). Maybe WTTN developers could concentrate on this type of work.

We have designed the program to be as flexible as possible so I hope that people with very different needs from ours will find it a useful platform to build on. As far as the WTTN is concerned, I want people who wouldn't otherwise be interested in astronomy to enjoy being in the universe, as we do . To this end, I want the program to be free and widely distributed and I want science centres, schools and anyone else to customise it for their own use incorporate it in their work.

However, to be able to continue what we are doing, there has to be a revenue stream at some point down the line. The software will continue to be developed as a free resource. What we plan to sell (or license) are the 'pointy things' that go with it (which can be thought of optional extras). I have a patent pending that covers these devices and investment is now shifting from the program to the hardware. By the summer we will have a production prototype of an external (vandal resistant) device that I am hoping science centres will place in public areas. We have plans for consumer pointy things too.

So you can use it but you can't distribute the DLL with the executable.

See: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs

Thanks Christophe. The discussion was beginning to scare me . We should have looked into this earlier on. I think the reason we went for IE was that, having decided we were building the prototype in Windows, it was the easiest option. We didn't have much time and were quite ambitious about the functionality we wanted to get in. For example, I thought it more important for the programmer (Alexibu) to work on the fine details of how the viewer rotates around objects (which took days to get right) than have to mess around with browsers. Whatever the merits (or otherwise) of this decision, getting a non-proprietry browser control into the program has now gone up in my list of priorities.

Adam

[Christophe]

Thanks Christophe. The discussion was beginning to scare me 8O. We should have looked into this earlier on. I think the reason we went for IE was that, having decided we were building the prototype in Windows, it was the easiest option. We didn't have much time and were quite ambitious about the functionality we wanted to get in. For example, I thought it more important for the programmer (Alexibu) to work on the fine details of how the viewer rotates around objects (which took days to get right) than have to mess around with browsers. Whatever the merits (or otherwise) of this decision, getting a non-proprietry browser control into the program has now gone up in my list of priorities.

That's something you have to keep in mind when working with free software, it is free but it still has some strings attached. If you're a bit careful it's usually not a major drawback and I'm glad a nice project like WTTN is able to build on Celestia.

It's not very clear from the website what Nesta Futurelab is, is it a private company, a not-for-profit organisation, a government agency? The name suggest a kind of fundation, can you give more information?

[adamnieman]

It's not very clear from the website what Nesta Futurelab is, is it a private company, a not-for-profit organisation, a government agency? The name suggest a kind of fundation, can you give more information?

You are right, it's not very clear. I had to ask someone before I could answer the question .

Futurelab is an initiative of NESTA (http://www.nesta.org.uk/) which is the National Endowment for Science Technology and the Arts. The funding comes mostly from the Dept. for Education and Skills and the Dept. for Trade and Industry (i.e. from government). It is not a foundation, but it is a not-for-profit organisation. Essentially, its about recognising that there is interesting technology out there that could be applied to education and bringing different people together to make it happen. There is a 'learning reserach' team that helps evaluate and develop innovative ideas with educational potential.

The following is from the Web site.

-- snip --
Our activity comprises three interwoven strands: research, prototype development and communications. These core activities enable us to act as a think-tank that nurtures new ideas and gathers intelligence; as an incubator and tester of early-stage and untested concepts; and as a hub supporting the multi-directional flow of information and knowledge between practitioners, policy makers, creators and learners.
-- snip --

I brought Welcome to the Neighbourhood to Futurelab in July last year through their 'call for ideas' scheme. They liked the idea and have been funding the project since then. Now we have additional funding from COPUS (http://www.copus.org.uk/) the Committee for the Public Understanding of Science (which is an initiative of the Royal Society).

Adam

[Christophe]

So NESTA provides the funding but the IP stays yours?

[adamnieman]

So NESTA provides the funding but the IP stays yours?

Yup . If there are any profits, Futurelab gets a share.

[don]

I am indeed planning to relaese the source code, which I suppose means finding a home for it on SourceForge.

That sounds great Adam!

Your ideas for changes sound real good too. This sounds like it could become the "Educational Version" of Celestia, where features are added to assist in education, versus the pure science part.

As far as the WTTN is concerned, I want people who wouldn't otherwise be interested in astronomy to enjoy being in the universe, as we do .

AMEN! Bring astronomy (and the cosmos) to the NORMAL people of the world!

By the summer we will have a production prototype of an external (vandal resistant) device that I am hoping science centres will place in public areas. We have plans for consumer pointy things too.

It all sound very exciting! Hope everything comes together like clockwork.

Cheers,

-Don G.