Bugs found in Windows v1.5.0 prerelease 1

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Toti
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Post #41by Toti » 08.12.2006, 23:06

I found a few more buggies:

As you get closer to Mercury, its orbit (red) seems to go behind the blue ones:
cel://Follow/Mercury/2006-12-09T02:56:0 ... 71&lm=2050

Turn around a little. Pluto barycenter's orbit gets segmented:
cel://Follow/Pluto-Charon/2006-12-09T03 ... 71&lm=2050

But overall, if found the orbits to be *much* improved since 1.4.x

Cham wrote:Toti,

this is exactly the problem I was describing. So I'm not alone anymore ! Heh !

What's your config ?

PIII 1Ghz, 256 Mb TNT2, driver 7174
Could you post the cel::url for that screengrab you posted?

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Post #42by Cham » 08.12.2006, 23:14

The screen grab was from an unpublished addon.


Here's an URL of Pluto, where the orbit disappears from view. If you get a bit closer, the orbit reappears, ...


cel://Follow/Pluto-Charon/2006-12-09T03 ... 07&lm=2050
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Post #43by Toti » 08.12.2006, 23:17

Everything works OK with that url. The red orbit is rock solid.

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selden
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Post #44by selden » 08.12.2006, 23:21

Of course, I can't get it to fail here.

My guess, from my very vague understanding of such things, is that it might be related to the arithmetic used by the hardware when doing clipping. The card in my new computer at work (Quadro FX 550, a low end professional card, apparently based on the same chipset design as Nvidia's GF 7000 consumer series) uses 32bit floating point arithmetic. Apparently most older consumer cards use either integers or 16bit floating point.

I fear Chris is going to have to review some of the algorithms currently used by Celestia in order to make them work better on chipsets with limited arithmetic units. That's going to be hard, especially since I have the impression he doesn't actually have any of those kinds of cards.
Selden

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Post #45by Cham » 08.12.2006, 23:22

Then it's really unreliable. There are at least three ppl who has various problems related to the orbits :

Me, ElChristou and Toti. The symptoms are not all the same (different config), but they are all obviously related. This points to a bug in Celestia.
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

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selden
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Post #46by selden » 08.12.2006, 23:32

I do see Toti's example red Mercury orbit seeming to go behind others.

I also see Toti's example red Pluto-Charon barycenter orbit occasionally have very small missing pieces.

Cham's Pluto orbit is fine for me.

*sigh*
Selden

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Post #47by chris » 08.12.2006, 23:53

selden wrote:Of course, I can't get it to fail here.

My guess, from my very vague understanding of such things, is that it might be related to the arithmetic used by the hardware when doing clipping. The card in my new computer at work (Quadro FX 550, a low end professional card, apparently based on the same chipset design as Nvidia's GF 7000 consumer series) uses 32bit floating point arithmetic. Apparently most older consumer cards use either integers or 16bit floating point.

I fear Chris is going to have to review some of the algorithms currently used by Celestia in order to make them work better on chipsets with limited arithmetic units. That's going to be hard, especially since I have the impression he doesn't actually have any of those kinds of cards.


Every graphics chip that does transform and lighting (every single Radeon or GeForce, and any other consumer graphics chip manufactured today) uses 32 bit floating point arithmetic for vertex processing and clipping. The precision of the pixel processing may be lower on older hardware, but that's almost certainly unrelated to this orbit problems.

Different graphics hardware makers do use very different techniques for clipping. I think that is what's causing the problems. I will have to do some work to make Celestia to push the precision limits of clipping. The constant fight with numerical precision limitations is a familiar story in Celestia development. Drawing the solar system from an arbitrary point of view is a nightmare case for numerical precision, and it's exacerbated by the fact that there's more than one set of precision limitations to contend with.

It'll take some more work, but I've got a lot of confidence in the new approaches that 1.5.0 takes to depth sorting and orbit rendering (these are related, by the way, as orbits are sort of the pathological case for depth sorting.)

--Chris

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Post #48by Adirondack » 09.12.2006, 01:41

selden wrote:...

2. if a solar eclipse is in progress
which makes this a rather more urgent problem. :(


Selden,

yes, you are right! Thanks for your astute observation.
I'm using Chris' moon "BodyFixedTest" that causes a solar eclipse on Earth everyday.
I had caught exactly these seven minutes when the Earth had turned red.
So we have a rather more urgent problem.

Adirondack
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The horizon of some people is a circle with the radius zero - and they call it their point of view. (A. Einstein)

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Post #49by jdou » 09.12.2006, 07:28

With Celestia 1.5.0pre1 from CVS (Dec 7th)

- I have no problem with all the URL from ElChristou if I check orbits in the "View options" menu in front of "planets"

- I see Toti's example Geographos orbit problem
- I see Toti's example Pluto barycenter orbit segmentation
- I see Cham's example Pluto-Charon orbit segmentation

- I dont see Toti's example Mercury orbit problem ?
P4c 3.0Ghz, 1 Gb, XP sp1, GeForce FX5700u 128 Mb, NV 93.71, Celestia 1.5.0pre2, BMNG 64k

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Celestia crahes with Venus 16k

Post #50by danielj » 09.12.2006, 17:09

New bug found!
Celestia crashes with the 16kNewVenus.png and 16kVenusBump.png from John van Vliet.No error message appears.
Could be insuficient video memory?I have a 256 MB 7600 GT,BUT 16k*8=131 MB.So 2*131>256.Could be this?

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Post #51by Toti » 09.12.2006, 18:04

Found a new one:
cel://Follow/Earth/2006-12-09T22:03:33. ... 07&lm=2050
Pan a little in the direction of the red orbit. At some point, it disappears almost completely.

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Post #52by Cham » 09.12.2006, 19:15

I confirm Toti's URL. Moving a bit farther, and some orbits disappears (not all of them).
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Post #53by t00fri » 09.12.2006, 20:24

I can also confirm the vanishing of the red orbit. So no doubt, this is a bug.

Bye Fridger
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Post #54by chris » 11.12.2006, 17:16

Using Toti's URL, I'm able to reproduce the disappearing orbits problem. I'm working on a fix now.

--Chris

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Post #55by PlutonianEmpire » 11.12.2006, 20:21

bugs i've encountered since downloading the prerelease self-installer last night:

1. planet turns red during eclipse (turning cloud shadows off fixes the problem)
Image

2. double planet around same double star (before adding the new atmosphere code to the SSC, cloud shadows on)
Image

3. (and with the new atmosphere code; cloud shadows off)
Image

4. "surface" of entire gas planet is dark, even though half the cloudmap is quite transparent.
Image

5. Same problem as number two, except that Sol has no companion.
Image

And this concludes the 1.5.0pre1 bug report from your friendly neighborhood Pluto-obsessed celestian. :)
Terraformed Pluto: Now with New Horizons maps! :D

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Post #56by chris » 12.12.2006, 09:34

Cham wrote:I confirm Toti's URL. Moving a bit farther, and some orbits disappears (not all of them).


I just committed a change that fixes all of the reported orbit rendering problems that I was able to reproduce.

--Chris

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Post #57by Toti » 12.12.2006, 14:42

Toti wrote:I found a few more buggies:

As you get closer to Mercury, its orbit (red) seems to go behind the blue ones:
cel://Follow/Mercury/2006-12-09T02:56:0 ... 71&lm=2050

Turn around a little. Pluto barycenter's orbit gets segmented:
cel://Follow/Pluto-Charon/2006-12-09T03 ... 71&lm=2050
?

The first one is fixed, but the orbit is now drawn over Mercury itself.
The second one is fixed now.

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Post #58by Toti » 12.12.2006, 15:08

Toti wrote:Found a new one:
cel://Follow/Earth/2006-12-09T22:03:33. ... 07&lm=2050
Pan a little in the direction of the red orbit. At some point, it disappears almost completely.

This one is still present, though.

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Re: Bugs found in Windows v1.5.0 prerelease 1

Post #59by chris » 12.12.2006, 22:16

selden wrote:3. From some viewpoints, smooth edges are rendered as jagged intrusions. See the folder "model_issues"


I forgot to write about this one . . . It's a depth buffer precision issue, and it's only noticeable with narrow fields of view. I'll be testing a possible fix tonight.

--Chris


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