can't display black holes

[Psykotik]

I'm going though a quite strange bug : I cannot anymore display black holes addons, their names cannot even be found.

With the Cham's black hole http://shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6430, I only be able to see a distant Sun, but nothing else.

With the Franck one http://shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6202,
I can only see the nebula, and a sun inside it; but there is no way to display the black hole.

I have no clue about what's happening, but I *think* it is not graphic card related. Any idea ?

Using Celestia 1.4pre6

[Cham]

Well, in the case of my black holes, you have to enter their name properly, because they are small and don't emit much light ! They may be hard to find without entering their name.

All my black holes are orbiting a barycenter, because they have a companion object (a star or a pulsar). So in Celestia, enter the following names (without the quotes), one for each black hole (if you downloaded my two black holes addons) :

1- "Ogre's navel/Ogre" (there's a red star orbiting close to the black hole)
2- "Black EGO/black hole" (there's a star orbiting far from that black hole)

3- "Black widow/black hole 3" (there's a pulsar orbiting around that black hole)

[Psykotik]

What I said was untrue : Celestia could find the addons' names, but it doesn't display (this statement is still true ).

I've checked the presence of the addons, checked the planet display option was on, but I see nothing...

[Bob Hegwood]

I managed to get to and view the Ogre's Navel Black hole display okay, but
I too can see nothing for the Black Ego display.

In my case though, it's probably just my antiquated graphics.

By the way, Cham... Can you explain to me (In simple English terms please)
why a black hole will emit shafts of light (particles? photons? anti-matter?) at
the poles?

I don't understand how anything can be ejected from the area, although I
think I have heard explanations for this phenomena. Just didn't understand
them I guess.

Take care, Bob

[Cham]

I don't understand why you don't see the black holes. You must :

1- Have Celestia 1.4.x, because of the Barycenter command in the stc and ssc files.
2- Using the Barycenter, Celestia currently don't show the components in the system browser. So you have to manually type the object's name by pressing enter. The exact paths are the following (I made a small mistake in my previous post. Don't type "black hole 3") :

- Ogre's navel/Ogre
- Black EGO/Black Hole

In the second of my black holes addons, the path is :

- Black Hole

Or :

- Black Widow/Black Hole.

Please, confirm that you're able to see, or not, the objects by following the paths I'm giving you here.

Bob :

About the jets, to be prefectly honest, physicists currently don't know exactly how the jets are formed. Apparently, the strong magnetic field around pulsars and black holes is responsible of the jets formation. Particles moving around the central object are electrically charged. So they get a kick in the butt from the magnetic field, and the magnetic force is proportionnal to the particle's velocity. Gravity is pulling the particles toward the center, and the particle can have a very high speed near the object (almost the speed of light). So the magnetic force gets very strong. The particle tend to follow the magnetic lines in a circular way, AROUND the fields lines. How they get out of the trapp, we're currently not sure.

[Pierre Tournay]

Hi Bob

Imagine this black hole close to it' s compagnion star.
The gas from the star gets pulled towards the black hole and as it approaches, it spins around it. The closer it gets to the black hole, the faster it spins around it....The faster it spins, the hotter it gets, to the point that the gasses disintegrate into energy.

The black hole has different regions. One of which is called the Torus.
Thats the "Cloud" of matter spinning around getting hotter and hotter.
Eventually, that gas enters the "Event Horizon" and gets sucked-in the black hole forever but some of it disintegrates before being sucked-in.

Now, imagine flying way way high above the black hole.
You could imagine looking down the throat of the black hole...sort of looking down the polar axis of the black hole. This is the axis that matter turns around and thats the orientation of the jets

The jet of energy is what did not get sucked in ...but rather, what was converted to energy. Remember E=MC2

Sorry for barting in but I love black holes )

Pierre Tournay
Montreal

[Jeam Tag]

What I said was untrue : Celestia could find the addons' names, but it doesn't display (this statement is still true ).8
I've checked the presence of the addons, checked the planet display option was on, but I see nothing...

Hi Psycho, even with my poor install I can see these addons http://jeam.tag.free.fr/CELESTIAhtml/CelestiaAddons-Univers1.htm, so YOU can do this If I understand correctly, these objets are orbiting barycenter, so they aren't listed in the system browser, so you must type the exact names to go to, alas: explore the ssc files and test manipulations. Seems to me that Martin maybe could write a more explicit 'readme' Jeam 'J'aime beaucoup ces ajouts' Tag

[Bob Hegwood]

Sorry for barting in but I love black holes)

Thanks for the explanation, Pierre... Feel free to barge in on me anytime.

Thanks also to Cham for his explanation. Black Holes can apparently "bend"
the laws of physics without quite breaking them, eh?

Interesting stuff...

By the way, Cham, your Black Holes *do* display themselves magnificently
on my Brain-Dead machine. You just hafta know where to look.

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate the enlightenment.

Take care, Bob

[Psykotik]

Well, thank you people for supporting me in a such bad moment

I've installed the third release (Cham's), and now everthing goes well. It was worth the waiting, I really appreciate that damn good addon ! Both this one and the Thorsten's Sun are a step further for Celestia.

BTW, I still can't see the Frank's black hole, but I'm going to check everything again. Having two black holes not working let me suppose something was wrong with Celestia, but since there is only one...

[Pierre Tournay]

Black hole go beyong bending the laws of physics my friend ...They break them down totally !!

Einstein came up with General Relativity to explain with stagering precision the regions of space (or more preciselly, Space/time) with immense gravity.

Then, Quantum mecanics explains with extraordinary precision the universe of the incredibly small (Sub-atomic levels).

Both laws are accurate taken seperatly and well proven.

However, in a black hole, where you have a singularity that is smaller than an atom with un-imaginable gravity.....We try to unite both laws and they give meaningless results...They completly break down.

We speculate on time travel, extra dimensions, worm holes and the likes but they are far from proven.

Scientists are trying to unite those two well proven laws into what they call "The grand unifying theory". One equation that would explain everything in the Universe from a simple butterfly flying to the heart of black holes....That' s when you get into Super String theory and "M" Theory which seems to be able to unite General relativity with Quantum mecanics but then, these equations say that you end up with a Universe with 11 dimensions. And worse of all, Superstrings are based on things that are so small (10e-37 cm) that it would take a particle smasher the size of the solar system to prove the existence of such small particles.
And here lies the dilema. How can we trust a theory based on particles we cannot prove exist ?

Black holes are exotic things that everybody loves and with your superb add-ons in Celestia, we can all marvel at them and simply gasp before the mysteries they still contain

Sorry if I side tracked from the main discussion but that' s all part of Black holes

Sincerely
Pierre Tournay

[Cham]

I'm making a fourth (last ?) black hole, with more specific features on the jets. This one will be a lonely (no companion), generic black hole which could be placed everywhere in the Celestia universe.

[Jeam Tag]

Black hole go beyong bending the laws of physics my friend ...They break them down totally !!
Sorry if I side tracked from the main discussion but that' s all part of Black holes
Pierre Tournay

Yep. Black Holes, Pulsars (and other Quasi Stellar objects) are very difficult to understand...and to represent. Nice to see some interpretations by Jorge, Franck or Martin in Celestia.
Don't know if you saw that, but I remembered a picture by Manchu (a great french Space Artist) in the french mag 'Ciel et Espace' (findable in Canada, IIRC) about a Black Hole near a planet: there was just some circles of brief lights around the nexus: as it was understanded the black hole was... a black hole!
What a harshly strange object to design...
Jeam, as usual, sorry for my english

(ps: Pierre, pendant que j'y suis, tu pourrais aussi t'inscrire au forum francophone que Psycho (petit suisse sympa) essaye de faire fonctionner : http://celestia.myftp.org/forum/

[Pierre Tournay]

Bonjour Jeam tag

As much as I enjoy astronomy, I am also burried in emails and internet groups. I like to come to Celestia to get ideas on how to fix bugs and make the program fly But I must admit that I have too many emails from other groups and I find myself doing less work...when I should be working ....I' m still cheating !!!

My boss during the day would hate me for doing this on working hours and my boss at home hates computers

Merci pour l' invitation

Sincerely
Pierre Tournay

[Psykotik]

Well, I finally resolved the last allegedly bug; downloading a new release (which I wasn't aware... ?) of the Frank's plugins, it does work perfectly.

Case closed, sorry to have been bothering

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Jeam, je te revaudrai le "petit" Suisse