A couple of new (to me) bugs for you...

[don]

Thank you Grant.

The parent FTP page to the locations page has been broken for some time now (displays a static Google page), and I did not remember what the direct URL was.

I had no idea anyone had "fixed" these files. Was there a posting somewhere indicating this? What exactly was "fixed"? Have any of the Earth locations files been "fixed"? Has any pre-defined description of how to properly create a Location file ever been defined?

Thanks again,

-Don G.

[granthutchison]

The parent FTP page to the locations page has been broken for some time now (displays a static Google page), and I did not remember what the direct URL was.

It's handily recorded for posterity on [url=ennui.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2969]this very fine thread[/url]

I had no idea anyone had "fixed" these files. Was there a posting somewhere indicating this?

No.

What exactly was "fixed"?

I've added "Type" fields, using USGS feature codes taken from the IAU planetary nomenclature website.

Have any of the Earth locations files been "fixed"?

Not by me - you'd need to contact their authors.

Has any pre-defined description of how to properly create a Location file ever been defined?

Ummmmm ... you did that, Don, in the thread I referenced above.

Grant

[don]

Howdy Grant,

The parent FTP page to the locations page has been broken for some time now (displays a static Google page), and I did not remember what the direct URL was.

It's handily recorded for posterity on [url=ennui.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2969]this very fine thread[/url]

<laughing out loud> But of course!

What exactly was "fixed"?

I've added "Type" fields, using USGS feature codes taken from the IAU planetary nomenclature website.

In English, does this mean you changed the text descriptions to recognized 2-letter abbreviations <smile>?

Has any pre-defined description of how to properly create a Location file ever been defined?

Ummmmm ... you did that, Don, in the thread I referenced above.

I started that thread in order to get the location file creators to put their heads together and come up with a pre-defined list, in addition to the 2-letter abbreviations currently allowed, along with defining some distance settings, etc. Chris even agreed. But seemingly, it never went anywhere <frown>?

-Don G.

[granthutchison]

In English, does this mean you changed the text descriptions to recognized 2-letter abbreviations <smile>?

There were no Type fields provided in the original files Chris produced. So I re-extracted the data to insert the 2-letter codes, as you say.

I started that thread in order to get the location file creators to put their heads together and come up with a pre-defined list, in addition to the 2-letter abbreviations currently allowed, along with defining some distance settings, etc. Chris even agreed. But seemingly, it never went anywhere <frown>?

Ah, I see what you mean now - you're talking about dictating some specific way of using the syntax, rather than merely describing the syntax, yes?
I'm afraid I don't see much necessity for any additional features or definitions beyond what's already in place, so I'm the wrong fella to be asking about this. The USGS feature list is exhaustive for terrain types outside the Earth, and the "size" of these objects is given in kilometres, measuring their diameter or linear extent.

Grant

[Bob Hegwood]

Don and Grant...

Sorry to burst your bubble Grant, but the files you pointed Don and I to are definitely *NOT* corrected.

There are *no* type codes integrated into the moon_locs.ssc file, nor have I found any in the mars_locs.ssc file.

Just thought I'd let you know... I *am* still working on adding the codes, but be aware, also that Mr. Laurel's program is *still* not utilizing more than half of these type codes.

Thus far, I've found success only with the codes for Montes, Terrae, Vallis, and normal craters. I'll post a more complete report after I finish them.

If you *do* have corrected files, please - Send them to me - I'd be more than happy to TEST them for you.

Take care, Bob

[granthutchison]

Sorry to burst your bubble Grant, but the files you pointed Don and I to are definitely *NOT* corrected.

Yes, I know ... I told you exactly that earlier in this thread, when I wrote:

They should be here, but I guess Chris forgot to update the files on the website when I sent them to him.

Full revised versions should be in your e-mail inbox by now.

Grant

[don]

Howdy Bob,

The previously mentioned Location thread (http://ennui.shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2969) says the following -- is this not correct?

According to Chris, the current pre-release (1.3.1 6 or 7) includes recognition of the following 2-letter values for the Type entry, listed in alphabetical code order:

Code: Select all


Type USGS Definition
---- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
AA   Crater, craters  A circular depression
AS   Astrum, astra  Radial-patterned features on VENUS
CA   Catena, catenae  Chain of craters
CH   Chaos, Distinctive area of broken terrain
CM   Chasma, chasmata  A deep, elongated, steep-sided depression
CR   Corona, coronae  Ovoid-shaped feature
DO   Dorsum, dorsa  Ridge
FE   Flexus, A very low curvilinear ridge with a scalloped pattern
FL   Fluctus, Flow terrain
FO   Fossa, fossae  Long, narrow, shallow depression
FR   Farrum, farra  Pancake-like structure, or a row of such structures
LF   LandingSite, Lunar features at or near APOLLO LANDING SITES
LI   Linea, lineae  A dark or bright elongate marking, may be curved or straight
ME   Mare, maria  "Sea"; large circular plain (MOON only)
MN   Mensa, mensae  A flat-topped prominence with cliff-like edges
MO   Mons, montes  Mountain
PE   Patera, paterae  An irregular crater, or complex one with scalloped edges
PL   Planitia, planitiae  Low plain
PM   Planum, plana  Plateau or high plain
RE   Regio, regiones  A large area marked by reflectivity or color distinctions
     from adjacent areas, or a broad geographic region
RI   Rima, rimae  Fissure (MOON only)
RT   Reticulum, reticula  reticular (netlike) pattern on VENUS
RU   Rupes, Scarp
TA   Terra, terrae  Extensive land mass
TE   Tessera, tesserae  Tile-like, polygonal terrain
UN   Undae, Dunes
VA   Vallis, valles  Valley


Additional Celestia Types
-------------------------
XX = Other
City
Observatory


Currently listed by the USGS but missing from Celestia
------------------------------------------------------
AL  Albedo Feature Geographic area distinguished by amount of reflected light
CB  Cavus, cavi  Hollows, irregular steep-sided depressions usually in arrays
    or clusters
CO  Colles  Small hills or knobs
ER  Eruptive center  Active volcanic centers on IO
FA  Facula, faculae  Bright spot
LA  Labes  Landslide
LB  Labyrinthus, labyrinthi  Complex of intersecting valleys
LC  Lacus  "Lake"; small plain (MOON ONLY)
LE  Lenticula, lenticulae  Small dark spots on EUROPA
LG  Large ringed feature  Cryptic ringed features
MA  Macula, maculae  Dark spot, may be irregular
OC  Oceanus  A very large dark area on the moon (MOON ONLY)
PA  Palus, paludes  "Swamp"; small plain (MOON ONLY)
PR  Promontorium, promontoria  "Cape"; headland promontoria (MOON ONLY)
PU  Plume
SC  Scopulus, scopuli  Lobate or irregular scarp
SI  Sinus  "Bay"; small plain
SU  Sulcus, sulci  Subparallel furrows and ridges
TH  Tholus, tholi  Small domical mountain or hill
VS  Vastitas, vastitates  Extensive plain


[don]

Say Grant,

On another project Bob is working on, we have found 2 different radius values for Pluto in 1.3.1 pre11 (1137 and 1151). Can you tell us which one will be used in the final version?

Thanks!

-Don G.

[Bob Hegwood]

Sorry to burst your bubble Grant, but the files you pointed Don and I to are definitely *NOT* corrected.

Yes, I know ... I told you exactly that earlier in this thread, when I wrote:

They should be here, but I guess Chris forgot to update the files on the website when I sent them to him.

Full revised versions should be in your e-mail inbox by now.

Grant

Ooops again...

Sorry Grant, I got so excited when I saw the url that I just jumped right over there and downloaded *all* of the files. I HAVE received your e-mail, and I'm about to have a look at them.

Thanks *very* much for taking the time to send them to me. I'll make them available on my web page if they function as I expect that they will.

By the way, I *am* correct in saying that more than half of the new codes are not yet implemented in Celestia... Am I not?

Thanks again, Bob

[granthutchison]

On another project Bob is working on, we have found 2 different radius values for Pluto in 1.3.1 pre11 (1137 and 1151). Can you tell us which one will be used in the final version?

1137 is the figure used in Celestia 1.3.0. Somewhere among the various prereleases for 1.3.1 I took a sweep through solarsys.ssc and tried to standardize the quoted radii for the various solar system bodies - the figures were taken from JPL on-line reference tables. That's the source of the current radius for Pluto, 1151km, and I wouldn't plan to change it unless better information came along.

Grant

[granthutchison]

By the way, I *am* correct in saying that more than half of the new codes are not yet implemented in Celestia... Am I not?

I think the problem you're referring to is in the Render interface, yes? Although Celestia might be able to understand the list that Chris gave and Don quotes above, it's only possible to select a subset of those for preferential display: Cities, Observatories, Landing Sites, Montes, Maria, Craters, Valles and Terrae. All the rest fall, by default, into the ragbag of "Other features."
I think the current limited interface was Chris's first attempt at allowing user-selectable display of locations, and it was a little hampered and watered down by the fact we didn't actually have a dataset containing a wide range of coded locations at that time (just the original uncoded selection you downloaded). So I'd hope the interface will be improved in future.

One thing that's probably worth mentioning: by experiment I've found that you don't have to use "XX" as the code for any feature type that doesn't fall into Celestia's current recognizable range - any location with a code Celestia doesn't recognize, but which is otherwise correctly defined, will still be displayed but will be internally coded as "Other feature". So in the files I sent you I have given correct USGS codes to all features, even those not in the current list. So they're "future-ready" if Chris decides to expand Celestia's current capabilities.

Grant

[Bob Hegwood]

Thanks very much Grant...

I understand that not all of the codes are being *rendered* by Celestia yet, and I understand that you don't need to use XX to have a feature displayed under the "Other" category.

You are correct in your interpretation of what I said. I was in the process of doing the same thing to my SSC's when you kindly finished my work for me. I was also adding the as yet un-rendered codes for a future release.

At any rate, you probably saved me two weeks worth of work with your files, and I *THANK YOU* again.

Take care, Bob