Celestia Forums

I download EarthBump & MarsBump files, plase it in to Celestia\textures\medres folder, and edit solarsys.ssc file, but surfaces of planets stay flat! It's not work! What can i do with this?
And second question: 'normal map' - what is it, and how use it?
My system is Athlon XP 2500+ FX5700 DDR3200-512Mb.
PS Sorry for bad English.

Hello,

You have to check your syntax first; those lines are for bump mapping:



(you can change the value for bumpheight)

This one replace the 2 above if you use normal map:



(where xxxxxx is the name of your file)

Normal maps, are another way to do bump effect; it is based on normals wich are vectors giving a direction for the light to react with a surface...
You should do some search in the forum for more info...

If you still have problems, check your OpenGL info to give us the detail of your config.

Bye

Yes, i wrote this lines. No effect.
OpenGL Info:
Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation

Renderer: GeForce FX 5700/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!

Version: 1.5.3

Max simultaneous textures: 4

Max texture size: 4096



Supported Extensions:

GL_ARB_depth_texture

GL_ARB_fragment_program

GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow

GL_ARB_fragment_shader

GL_ARB_imaging

GL_ARB_multisample

GL_ARB_multitexture

GL_ARB_occlusion_query

GL_ARB_point_parameters

GL_ARB_point_sprite

GL_ARB_shadow

GL_ARB_shader_objects

GL_ARB_shading_language_100

GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp

GL_ARB_texture_compression

GL_ARB_texture_cube_map

GL_ARB_texture_env_add

GL_ARB_texture_env_combine

GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3

GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat

GL_ARB_texture_rectangle

GL_ARB_transpose_matrix

GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object

GL_ARB_vertex_program

GL_ARB_vertex_shader

GL_ARB_window_pos

GL_S3_s3tc

GL_EXT_texture_env_add

GL_EXT_abgr

GL_EXT_bgra

GL_EXT_blend_color

GL_EXT_blend_func_separate

GL_EXT_blend_minmax

GL_EXT_blend_subtract

GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array

GL_EXT_Cg_shader

GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test

GL_EXT_draw_range_elements

GL_EXT_fog_coord

GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays

GL_EXT_packed_pixels

GL_EXT_paletted_texture

GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object

GL_EXT_point_parameters

GL_EXT_rescale_normal

GL_EXT_secondary_color

GL_EXT_separate_specular_color

GL_EXT_shadow_funcs

GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette

GL_EXT_stencil_two_side

GL_EXT_stencil_wrap

GL_EXT_texture3D

GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc

GL_EXT_texture_cube_map

GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp

GL_EXT_texture_env_combine

GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3

GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic

GL_EXT_texture_lod

GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias

GL_EXT_texture_object

GL_EXT_vertex_array

GL_HP_occlusion_test

GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip

GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat

GL_KTX_buffer_region

GL_NV_blend_square

GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color

GL_NV_depth_clamp

GL_NV_fence

GL_NV_float_buffer

GL_NV_fog_distance

GL_NV_fragment_program

GL_NV_fragment_program_option

GL_NV_half_float

GL_NV_light_max_exponent

GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint

GL_NV_occlusion_query

GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil

GL_NV_pixel_data_range

GL_NV_point_sprite

GL_NV_primitive_restart

GL_NV_register_combiners

GL_NV_register_combiners2

GL_NV_texgen_reflection

GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc

GL_NV_texture_env_combine4

GL_NV_texture_expand_normal

GL_NV_texture_rectangle

GL_NV_texture_shader

GL_NV_texture_shader2

GL_NV_texture_shader3

GL_NV_vertex_array_range

GL_NV_vertex_array_range2

GL_NV_vertex_program

GL_NV_vertex_program1_1

GL_NV_vertex_program2

GL_NV_vertex_program2_option

GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap

GL_SGIS_texture_lod

GL_SGIX_depth_texture

GL_SGIX_shadow

GL_SUN_slice_accum

GL_WIN_swap_hint

WGL_EXT_swap_control

The model of graphics card that is in your system should have no problems displaying bumpmaps or normalmaps.

Celestia already provides a bumpmap for Mars. Do the volcanos of Mars look like hills or circles before you try to use different texture files? Do you see them change as you switch from one Render Path to another? (Type Ctrl-V several times to change render paths.) What Render Paths does Celestia say that it's using?

Yes, Celestia says that it's using all modes (by svitching Ctrl+V). The image differences in each of this modes. I trieng to use NormalMap for Earth (normal map - 8k) - it's working! But with wery long delays between show next screen (wery low FPS i mean). If i reduce resolution of it's image (normal map) to 4k with graphics redactor, then program run fast, but surface becomes flat. Default textures on Mars is working! Maybee i do'nt see effect bacause hires surfaces maps alredy has shadows? What textures i need tu use for better result? And what is "xxxtopo.xxx" textures?

Fenyx wrote:Default textures on Mars is working! Maybee i do'nt see effect bacause hires surfaces maps alredy has shadows? What textures i need tu use for better result? And what is "xxxtopo.xxx" textures?

That could be it. If you have a surface map with a LOT of shadows, a bump map might not show through. Also...

I download EarthBump & MarsBump files, plase it in to Celestia\textures\medres folder, and edit solarsys.ssc file, but surfaces of planets stay flat

...you wrote "stays flat" - as far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong someone), the bump and normal maps don't actually RAISE the surface at all, they just control shadow casting. So the surfaces are ALWAYS flat. The shadows are just illusions - and ones that only work from certain angles and distances.

BlindedByTheLight wrote:...and ones that only work from certain angles and distances...

OOpps, small correction, bump mapping (as normal mapping) is visible from all angles and distances... the effect seems to disapear only in certain case and if the light comes just from behind you; the definition of the map will also make the result more or less visible. The use of an unshaded color map is more than recommended.

Bye

BlindedByTheLight wrote: The shadows are just illusions.

Yes, i know! And i do'nt see this illusion!
I test it again. On Mars normal&bump maps both work (~60fps). On Earth it's work only if resolution of those textures is 8192x4096! But it work WERY slow (~1-2fps). If resolution of bump or normal map less than 8k? then it's do'nt work! It's true, i wery attentively investigate resulting image! If res. is 8k then effect present, and seeng well! if res. is less than 8k, then no effect present!

Fenyx,have you tried any of the VT textures (Virtual textures) available on the motherlode site,these are a lot bigger resolution but cut up into smaller pieces,so you only use the tiles for the part of the planet you are currently over.It will run a whole lot smoother in Celestia especially dds format (if your graphics card can use these),Jestr

Fenyx wrote:

BlindedByTheLight wrote: The shadows are just illusions.

Yes, i know! And i do'nt see this illusion!

Oops... sorry for the confusion. It's just that when you wrote:

but surfaces of planets stay flat

I was under the impression that you were under the impression the normal/bump maps actually "physically" raised the surface features off the flat sphere of the planets - which they don't. In other words, the surfaces ARE always completely flat (even on Mars, even with the bump maps)... and your statement that the "surfaces of planets stay flat" made me think you didn't understand that.

In any case, the fact that you see the effect on Mars but not on Earth (except at very high texture resolutions) makes me think the problem isn't a "problem" at all... it's just that Earth's various elevations really aren't all that elevated (compared to Mars) and thus don't stand out all that much, period, and even less so with lower res textures. Unless I'm at the Himalayas or the Rockies I can BARELY notice the effects on Earth (unless I cheat and change the bump map's height in the SSC).

The only other thing I can think of is that the difference in Earth's bumping has nothing to do with the size of the textures - just that they are DIFFERENT textures -- and maybe one add-on is properly configured whereas another is not (either a bad SSC or something like that).

Hope that helps.[/quote]

Also Mars is only 1/2 the size of Earth so a 8k Mars texture will seem better than a 8k Earth one,Jestr

jestr wrote:Fenyx,have you tried any of the VT textures

It's to big for my dialup connection!

BlindedByTheLight wrote:The only other thing I can think of is that the difference in Earth's bumping has nothing to do with the size of the textures - just that they are DIFFERENT textures

No! The 4k bumpmap texture i make from 8k texture by lovering resolution in graphics redactor!

BlindedByTheLight wrote:I was under the impression that you were under the impression the normal/bump maps actually "physically" raised the surface features off the flat sphere of the planets

I can't communicate freely in english. Sorry.

[quote=]No! The 4k bumpmap texture i make from 8k texture by lovering resolution in graphics redactor![/quote]

Well, that only makes me more suspicious then... since you are making these textures yourself, are you ABSOLUTELY sure that you have created the add-on properly? Addons are very tricky... you need to have files in the right places, you need to have file extensions correct in the SCC, you need to make sure the SSC is written correctly. Since you have made these textures yourself, are you absolutely sure that they are loading properly? Because, as far as I can tell, that still seems to be the most likely cause of your problem - which is NOT that the texture doesn't work, just that you are doing something incorrect with the way the texture is supposed to load.

Another way of putting this... why don't you post:

1) EXACTLY what you did to make this texture
2) Where ALL the files are stored
3) Post your SSC so we can look at

The trouble could easily be in 1-3... in fact, it often is.

Yesssssssssssss!!!! I found the Celestia's BUG! (I mind).
If color dephth of textures is 32bpp (in .png format only!), then it's wirk! If color dephth is 24bpp then ANY textures (surface/bump/normal) is do'nt load and not work! In's all, my problem is down! The safe of drowings is affayr of them own hands! Thank's to all.