Celestia Forums

Hello,

I need to know if the default package of Celestia for Linux contain the models of MGS and MO...

Tx

ElChristou wrote:Hello,

I need to know if the default package of Celestia for Linux contain the models of MGS and MO...

Tx

Celestia differes only in the frontend (GUI) code between Linux and Windows. OS X is largely similar (I guess, never looked into the OS X part). All the code making up the Celestia engine (celestial mechanics, 3d rendering,...), *.ssc, *dsc, *stc (configuration) files, scripting code, as well as all textures and models etc are identical. Hence the OS-dependent fraction of Celestia code is really not a large fraction of the total!

Incidentally:

It was mainly for that reason we decided about 3 years ago to use proven and well-maintained OS-dependent GUI toolkit libraries rather than one single cross-platform toolkit. Qt was the only serious cross-platform candidate. Qt exists as a commercial and a free version. While the commercial version was clearly out, it was feared that the free Qt might not (yet) be in a really perfect stage on the Windows side...Also, Chris had little (no) previous experience with Qt. Hence for Linux, we started with gtk and later added KDE, while for Windows the native API's were used. I (re-)did much of the first gtk-1.x frontend coding for the Linux version, which was much later rewritten by Pat Suwalski for gtk-2.x and Gnome embedding. Christophe did the vast majority of the KDE frontend.

Bye Fridger

t00fri wrote:...as well as all textures and models etc are identical...

I suppose you are sure of this ,but the osX package contain some models (MGS, MO etc...), and apparently Selden on Windows don't have those models by default... (see http://www.shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7246&start=15)

Now just to write the readme file of this addon (with and advertence for osX and perhaps Linux users) I need to know if yes or no you have the MGS in your default pakage...

Bye

ElChristou wrote:

t00fri wrote:...as well as all textures and models etc are identical...

I suppose you are sure of this ,but the osX package contain some models (MGS, MO etc...), and apparently Selden on Windows don't have those models by default... (see http://www.shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7246&start=15)

Now just to write the readme file of this addon (with and advertence for osX and perhaps Linux users) I need to know if yes or no you have the MGS in your default pakage...

Bye

I have the CVS sources in front of me: what I stated was that for Linux and Windows there is only ONE COMMON 'models' and 'extras' directory where such models could reside. I did not check carefully what models are in those two directories. Whatever is in those directories will be loaded in either OS after Celestia starts off...

I just run CVS-Celestia and indeed MGS is there in Linux. So it should be there in Windows, too. That was all I claimed. Also OS X does not have a separate place where models reside. So all three OS'es should have MGS...

Bye Fridger

PS: Of course Chris could simply have forgotten to pack MGS and other models into the Windows version. But in the common source code, MGS is in. In other words in my self-compiled /Windows/ version MGS is surely in. I alsways compile Celestia myself, be it in Windows or Linux.

Ok, I considere this as a definitive YES...

Tx Fridger
Bye

Unfortunately, just because a file is in the CVS tree does not mean that it's included in the official Windows distribution. The source code isn't included, for example. In particular, many of the spacecraft models are NOT included. The spacecraft SSC files which are in the CVS extras folder, and not in the data folder with those of the "official" models, are not included either.

The six spacecraft models that Chris includes in the Windows distribution are the following:

Cassini
Galileo
Hubble
Huygens
ISS
Mir

No others are included.

Ok... What a mess

So I will consider that Windows don't have the MGS, and both Linux and osX yes...

Bye, Tx for all.

selden wrote:Unfortunately, just because a file is in the CVS tree does not mean that it's included in the official Windows distribution. The source code isn't included, for example. In particular, many of the spacecraft models are NOT included. The spacecraft SSC files which are in the CVS extras folder, and not in the data folder with those of the "official" models, are not included either.

The six spacecraft models that Chris includes in the Windows distribution are the following:

Cassini
Galileo
Hubble
Huygens
ISS
Mir


No others are included.

Selden,

I tend to see this slightly differently, in principle.

Chris packs a /binary/ version for Windows, yes. But Celestia is /open Source/ by its definition, hence the Windows distribution is only complete if the source code is added!

It's a pecularity of typical Windows users, that unlike UNix/Linux users they often don't know how to compile.

But I would insist that all models of the official source code are part of the /complete/ Windows distribution...When you compile the source code for Windows, all the models in question are loaded, just like in Linux or OS X.

[I never use Chris' binary versions for Windows. Compilation just takes a few minutes...]

Bye Fridger

In principle you are right but... I remeber a discussion between us some months ago about the lack of developers that should take care even of these small datails.
The development team requires a lot of people not only experienced coders.

Paolo wrote:In principle you are right but... I remeber a discussion between us some months ago about the lack of developers that should take care even of these small datails.
The development team requires a lot of people not only experienced coders.

Paulo,

yes there is an obvious clash related to lacking manpower as to getting such little oddities in order. Yet, as I see it, there is no way to bypass the fact that for Celestia as an Open Source distribution, the source code defines the official content of the distribution. With each new official release, that source code is deposited at SourceForge.

For that reason, the Linux guys, like Christophe and myself take care that the source distribution matches the various published binary Linux distributions /precisely/.


It's also logical, isn't it?

Bye Fridger

Another quick question to Linux users:

Is there a "Celestia Resources" folder in the Celestia directory of the Linux version ?

ElChristou wrote:Another quick question to Linux users:

Is there a "Celestia Resources" folder in the Celestia directory of the Linux version ?

Not with that name: "Celestia Resources", but analogue names:

The Windows resources dir is src/celestia/res
The Linux-kde analog is src/celestia/kde/data
The Linux-gtk analog is src/celestia/gtk/data


Bye Fridger

Tx, Fridger

Bye

While there is a "res" directory in CVS on SourceForge, it's empty. Its existance there causes it to be created on Windows systems that compile from the CVS source. However, as best I can tell, it is not used for anything whatsoever. It's not included in Celestia's binary distribution for Windows, either.

Usually, Windows "resources" are stored in the registry, not in a directory visible to the user.

selden wrote:While there is a "res" directory in CVS on SourceForge, it's empty. Its existance there causes it to be created on Windows systems that compile from the CVS source. However, as best I can tell, it is not used for anything whatsoever. It's not included in Celestia's binary distribution for Windows, either.

Usually, Windows "resources" are stored in the registry, not in a directory visible to the user.

Selden,

these are the files in src/celestia/res both on SourceForge and in my Sandbox:


Bye Fridger

Fridger,

There are no files visible when I use SourceForge's Web interface. See http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/c ... estia/res/

And my Celestia/res/ directory has never contained anything.

Aha! This is not the src directory that you mention.

Src contains the files needed to build Celestia, not the files needed to run Celestia. I.e. these are resource files used to create internal data structures within the Windows version of Celestia, not resource files used directly by Windows. I suspect that this resource information is what gets written by Celestia into the registry and/or gets displayed by Windows Explorer (the file GUI) when it reads the information that's in Celestia's executable image.

While this information may be equivalent to some of what's kept in OS X's Resource directory, the /res/ directory is not used by Windows.

selden wrote:Fridger,

There are no files visible when I use SourceForge's Web interface. See http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/c ... estia/res/

And my Celestia/res/ directory has never contained anything.

Aha! This is not the src directory that you mention.

Src contains the files needed to build Celestia, not the files needed to run Celestia. I.e. these are resource files used to create internal data structures within the Windows version of Celestia, not resource files used directly by Windows. I suspect that this resource information is what gets written by Celestia into the registry and/or gets displayed by Windows Explorer (the file GUI) when it reads the information that's in Celestia's executable image.

While this information may be equivalent to some of what's kept in OS X's Resource directory, the /res/ directory is not used by Windows.

Selden,

I have referred in all cases {Linux-kde, Linux gtk and Windows} on purpose to the src/celestia/{ kde/data, gtk/data, res} directories, since those serve analogous purposes in the /building/. As I detailed in an earlier post, for me binary distributions are not relevant as reference to whatever, given that Celestia is OpenSource.

Files in the 'res' directory are referenced by the following Windows sources and VS make & project files:

res/resource.h : <=

winbookmarks.cpp, wineclipses.cpp, winhyperlinks.cpp, winmain.cpp, winssbrowser.cpp, winstarbrowser.cpp, wintourguide.cpp, winviewoptsdlg.cpp,

In Celestia.dsp: =>

res/*.ico, res/*.bmp, res/*.cur, res/celestia.rc, res/resource.h

celestia.mak: =>

res/celestia.rc


Incidentally, ElChristou asked about resources in Linux (not Windows). I just added reference to the Windows-res dir for completeness. The respective src/celestia/{kde/data,gtk/data} dirs are undoubtedly used in the building and the resulting resource files installed in standard KDE or gtk system directories.


Bye Fridger

Tx guys,

I have solved my little problem, but I must say I have been quite surprised to find such littles differences between the platforms... it's not really pratical when trying to speak "the same language" but... after all it's a detail.

Tx again,
Bye