I have problem with bumpmaps

[Malcolm]

If I turn bumpmap on ( with ctrl-p) my nightlights go out

bumpmap and nightlights seem to be mutually exclusive.
Is it me doing something stupid ? Or is it a bug ?

[Malcolm]

Hello ? anybody out there ???

24 people viewed but no one got an answer to my problem ?

Is it a problem with me , my video card or Celestia ??

Am I talking to myself ?

[ogg]

Well I have no real experience with this stuff because I've got a crappy graphics card that refuses to display either bumpmaps or night lights. Have you had a look at the OpenGL info in the help menu? What number does it give you for maximum number of textures? It might just be that your card can't do them all at once.
Anyway, I don't think that anyone can comment on your problem without more information.

[Malcolm]

Thanks ogg,
Yes, firstly, basically, I needed to know if others could do what I couldnt !
If they could then that would have meant that I had a prob that I could start delving into or asking questions about !
but I didnt even know if it was poss it display both at the same time and no one was telling me I should be able to !! and then I saw Chris posting about other things that couldnt be viewed together ( speculars and things)

So thanks for your helpful bit about OpenGL in the Help, I didnt even know what OpenGL was until just recently !
So, this is the relevant bit I think :
---------------
Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Renderer: GeForce2 GTS/AGP/SSE
Version: 1.2.1
Max simultaneous textures: 2
Max texture size: 2048
---------------

and that '2' clinches it I should think ?
ie. my prob not Celestia's !
So now I can go back to sleep and not worry about it !
or,
question for NVIDIA users,,,
to change that 2 to a 3 I suppose would need card update or might there be a setting somewhere to allow some more memory or summat to be devoted to it ?? <-- more blind casting about in the dark by Malcolm !

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond, I appreciate it very much.

[t00fri]

Thanks ogg,
Yes, firstly, basically, I needed to know if others could do what I couldnt !
If they could then that would have meant that I had a prob that I could start delving into or asking questions about !
but I didnt even know if it was poss it display both at the same time and no one was telling me I should be able to !! and then I saw Chris posting about other things that couldnt be viewed together ( speculars and things)

So thanks for your helpful bit about OpenGL in the Help, I didnt even know what OpenGL was until just recently !
So, this is the relevant bit I think :
---------------
Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Renderer: GeForce2 GTS/AGP/SSE
Version: 1.2.1
Max simultaneous textures: 2
Max texture size: 2048
---------------

and that '2' clinches it I should think ?
ie. my prob not Celestia's !
So now I can go back to sleep and not worry about it !
or,
question for NVIDIA users,,,
to change that 2 to a 3 I suppose would need card update or might there be a setting somewhere to allow some more memory or summat to be devoted to it ?? <-- more blind casting about in the dark by Malcolm ! :)

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond, I appreciate it very much.

I have a GeForce 2 GTS/32MB and everything works perfectly. But your information is totally unsatisfactory (read Chris's first memo under Bugs!). That's why people who know about those things usually keep quiet;-)

What is your OS?? Celestia is a multi platform application!

What is your Celestia version?

What settings did you do with your GeForce card? Default or anything special?

etc.

It simply costs too much time if we have to extract every bit of relevant info by means of a separate mail...With 4000+ mails in the archive and hundreds of registered users with different graphics cards, it is usually a /very/ good idea to first browse previous mails.

Bye Fridger

[Malcolm]

>and everything works perfectly

Thank you Friger, that was what I needed to know in the first instance !
If someone had just said that, or something like " you should be able to display both at the same time depending upon your system" THEN I could have explored the problem further. That is why I wrote "seem to be mutually exclusive", someone could have said " No, they are not" 4 words!
I thought I was doing you all a favour by not posting reams and reams of details just for somebody to say "No you cant, in the present version of Celestia, display both at the same time " See what I mean ? I was attempting to not waste your time ! sorry I fouled up!

So to answer your questions :
OS is WinME,
P3 1GHz 133MHz FSB, 256kB L2 cache,
128 Mb PC133 ram
ASUS m/b, version unknown (reports as Medion special, (vendor special))
12 Gb free space on the C: drive, where Celestia is installed (40Gb total drive capacity, split into C: and D: 350Mb spare in D: !)
GeForce2GTS 32 Mb DDRSDRAM AGP4x (with TV out ! )
that is probably all the relevant bits, but I'm a newbie so I am not sure

>What is your Celestia version?

1.2.4, downloaded and installed 14/7/02

>What settings did you do with your GeForce card? Default or anything special?

Default I suppose, unless my vendor did something at installation/assembly, I dont know ??? How could I tell ?

New experiments since I responded to ogg are :-
despite the OpenGL thing reporting max 2 textures I can infact do 3, thus:-
earth + clouds + nightlights
or
earth + clouds + bump

but not
earth + night +bump
nor
earth + clouds + night +bump
I'll rewrite that last bit as I can only do
earth + clouds + (night OR bump)

Does that make any sense?
I am using earth just as an example here, I cant do it for any planet either in the normal celestia install or any that I have added myself.

>it is usually a /very/ good idea to first browse previous mails.

Ummm, yes, I did, many months back, I must have missed the relevant ones ( or not understood the significance of them at the time OR was distracted by too much playing with/understanding of Celestia ! howzat for an excuse LOL! )

Thanks for your time, it is aoppreciated.
best wishes,
Malcolm.

[Malcolm]

PS
Friger, I typed that last bit badly, let me try again :
----
>it is usually a /very/ good idea to first browse previous mails.

Ummm, yes, I did recently go many months back through the postings, I must have missed the relevant ones
-----

In fact it was one of your excellent posts a month or two ago that enabled me to get started with TheGIMP
If you feel like writing any more GIMPforCelestia tutorials it would be very nice !

best,
Malcolm.

[t00fri]

PS
Friger, I typed that last bit badly, let me try again :
----
>it is usually a /very/ good idea to first browse previous mails.

Ummm, yes, I did recently go many months back through the postings, I must have missed the relevant ones
-----

In fact it was one of your excellent posts a month or two ago that enabled me to get started with TheGIMP
If you feel like writing any more GIMPforCelestia tutorials it would be very nice :) !

First of all, make sure you have recent detonator drivers for your graphics card. Check the NVIDIA site.

I suppose you are aware that on earth there is by default nothing to
bumpmap, since there is no external file attached in solarsys.ssc
containing the required altitude level info. However, this is the case
for Mercury. So you should test whether ctrl-p on|off does something
for Mercury in your case.

Of course as was discussed many times, one must differentiate between
dynamic and static bumpmapping. Dynamic bumping is done with an
external bumpmap.jpg file (see e.g. Mercury in solarsys.ssc ). Static
bumping is done by means of GIMP and incorporates level info under a
/fixed/ angle of light incidence, which is clearly a
compromise. However, static bumping works for very hires textures,
while dynamic bumping so far is limited to <= 2048x1024 textures!

Although I am mainly using Linux, I also have a Win partition with ME
such that my setup is very similar to yours (PIII 1Ghz, 512MB).

I checked again that in my case CTRL-P ON|OFF just switches the
specular reflections ON|OFF for earth, with the nightlights staying on
all the time. That's what you should see.

I hope you are using an earth texture (dds or png format) with specular
reflections!? Otherwise CTRL P will do just nothing.


Bye Fridger

[Malcolm]

>I suppose you are aware that on earth there is by default nothing to
bumpmap

Yes , see below,
previously> "I am using earth just as an example here, I cant do it for any planet either in the normal celestia install or any that I have added myself. "

>this is the case for Mercury. So you should test whether ctrl-p on|off does something

It does !

Let me try this another way with 3 examples, perhaps you might be able to see my (obvious ?!) mistake, I can't !
----
(1)
From D.Edwards I got his Volcanic Moon and played with it like this :
"c" "Tau Ceti"
{
Texture "VA Moon.jpg"
NightTexture "VA brokencrust.jpg"
BumpMap "VA Moonbump.jpg"
BumpHeight 2.5

Mass 0
Radius 2233
Atmosphere {
Height 60
Lower [ 0.8 0.6 0.6 ]
Upper [ 0.7 0.3 0.3 ]
Sky [ 0.83 0.75 0.65 ]
CloudHeight 9
CloudSpeed 150
CloudMap "Thin Clouds.png"
}

EllipticalOrbit {
Period 6.5479
SemiMajorAxis 3.49
Eccentricity 0.9
Inclination 50.0
}

RotationPeriod 10.0
}


I can turn bump on/off with ctrl-p, but at the same time the nighttexture goes off/on ( the inverse)
----
(2)
Thinking that there might have been a problem with the Edwards files I then went to Mercury and checked ctrl-p that was OK.
I added Edwards-NightTexture - "VA brokencrust.jpg" to the Mercury entry in solarsys.ssc
same effect , bump ON results in brokencrust OFF
I changed the NightTexture to "earthnight.jpg" expecting Mercury or Celestia to fall over in a heap at that indignity ! But it displayed a fine set of earth lights on the Mercury dark side
But they still turned OFF when I turned bumps ON with ctrl-p
----
(3)
I put bumps into Earth with

BumpMap "moonbump1k.jpg
BumpHeight 0.7

same thing, bumps ON = lights OFF
(makes earth look a bit odd with moonbumps! but it does display)
---

***I dont want to waste too much of your time***, let us just call it one of life's little mysteries !
I am checking NVIDIA drivers now but any upgrade may have to wait until I get my second (spare) machine incase Murphy's Law strikes !

You said :
"I checked again that in my case CTRL-P ON|OFF just switches the
specular reflections ON|OFF for earth, with the nightlights staying on
all the time. That's what you should see. "

I dont understand how this specular thing came in ?? Is it the same as bumps ?

Thanks,
Malcolm

[Malcolm]

>I hope you are using an earth texture (dds or png format) with specular
reflections!? Otherwise CTRL P will do just nothing.

I dont know about specular reflections but as per the original Celestia install my earth has
Texture "earth.png"
# Texture "earth8k.dds"
NightTexture "earthnight.jpg"

However, I have just dug out the original zip that I downloaded from D.Edwards and the only png in it is the one for the ThinClouds
all the others are jpg
Is this a problem/explanation ? perhaps ?
Never-the-less, ctrl-p IS doing something all the time , just the wrong thing !