Creating add-ons as self-installer EXE files - here's how

[fsgregs]

Hi folks:

I have been getting excellent feadback from folks using my educational activities, but there has also been one occasional complaint. People just don't like handling zip files. Some people don't even have an unzipping program. Others have one, but don't know how to tell it how to unzip an add-on set of files directly into the proper Celestia folder. They unzip the add-on into a default "unzipped" folder. Then, they have to get the unzipped folders and files and manually drag/cut/paste or move them into several different Celestia folders. Naturally, the read-me file is buried in the add-on and they have to locate it. For many forum users, this is all child's play but for many, manipulating files and folders on a computer is intimidating.

What would obviously be nice is to distribute add-ons as self-installed executable files. Just click on it, it launches, you answer the usual few menu questions about where to put the files, and it self-installs into the correct Celestia folders. DONE! Easy! no file dragging or unzipping.

I, therefore, went searching the web for programs that will create EXE self-installer programs and was amazed to find at least 20 of them. Most are shareware or have to be purchased in some way.

Although I only examined one such program, I found it was really nice. It is called "Self-Extracting Archive Utility 12.0", and can be downloaded from its creator's website at http://gammadyne.com/

It has a set of easy menus that take you through the setup to create an EXE installer file for any add-on folder, individual file or program you wish. You can add a screen background, a license agreement, a detailed read-me file that the user sees first before the installation even begins, plus all the usual bells and whistles associated with installer files. A user can specify what file path to install the files into. The program will register a program for you with the computer registry, associate a new "extension" you may create with your add-on, distribute your files to any folders you wish, and it even provides an "uninstall" option.

Here is a screenshot of one of the screens I created:



There are a few downsides to the program. First, it only apparently works for Windows OS. It does not appear to work with MACs, or Linux. I don't know if a MAC or Linux version is available.

Second, SEAU 12.0 is shareware, not freeware. It costs $49 to buy, which is not bad for such a good program. If you choose not to buy it, then when you create an exe installer file, it will place an ad for the program on the opening page of the screen when a user launches your file. Otherwise, it does not restrict anything.

The program does compress your add-on into an EXE file that is about 10% larger than zip files in size.

I intend to convert all my add-ons from zip files to self-installer exe files and post them on the Motherlode. They are so much more user friendly. It will actually not take long at all. Because it does not work on a MAC or Linux, however, I will also leave my existing add-ons on Motherlode as zip files as well, with a short note to visitors to download one or the other, not both.

I have a few questions, however, I would appreciate your help on before I do so:

1. Does anyone use an EXE installer creation program now that is freeware, possibly from SourceForge, and has simple wizards or screens to work with (like SEAU), rather than having to write script code to create the file? I know there are script writing programs available for free, but is there a user-friendly one?

2. If so, could you provide its web address and indicate if it will work on MACs or Linux systems?

3. Is there any downside to a user downloading and launching an EXE file instead of a zip file from Motherlode?

Awaiting your feedback. Thanks guys.

Frank

[Spielmannsfluch]

Hi,

nice idea, I don't have porblems with .zip files, but I also propose .exe setups, because I'm lazy

I have found a nice open source setup creating utility. you can also download graphical front ends, creating scripts (i haven't tested them yet).

for further information click: http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php


mfg
spielmannsfluch

[rthorvald]

:)indicate if it will work on MACs or Linux systems?

Windows executables of any kind will not work on Linux, Mac, OS X or any other OS.

Is there any downside to a user downloading and launching an EXE file instead of a zip file from Motherlode?

Well, starting to distribute EXE files is a pretty bad precedent... A good portion of users will not be able to use them, and besides, such files can be modded to carry viruses.

Rather than starting to use executables to carry addons, it would be better to find other solutions. How about developing walk-through of the installation, that covers all platforms? If you write it, i can design it, and build a PDF or HTML thingy with screenshots and detailed step-by step instructions.

-rthorvald

[maxim]

Hopefully this doesn't gonna spread.
I don't like install files that are coming from barely know sources - especially if they are fiddling around in my registry.

Every unzipper let's you view textfiles inside archives, and asks you where to extract the files to - if the addon is well designed that should be all one should know. All unzippers even have a GUI nowadays that is as easy to use as any other program (with big colored icons). So I don't see ANY benefits.

maxim

[Harry]

I too am opposed to using exe files. There is a general rule for secure computing: NEVER execute programs from untrusted sources. Wrapping addons (or data files in general) in exe files forces you to violate this rule, because most sites should be considered untrusted. And some people won't even be able to use them.

As one of the persons managing the Celestia Motherlode I also want to add that it makes managing the site more difficult. At the moment I can quickly perform a sanity check and see if the file somebody uploaded is indeed a Celestia addon, and if it hasn't been corrupted during upload (this happens now and then). This is no longer possible with exe files. I can't even perform a virus-check, so I would have to trust the person who uploaded the file (indeed right now I have this problem with a portuguese translation of Celestia - I can't check it, so I don't know if it's ok to offer it as a download).

That being said I agree that something needs to be done about this. But the solution should not be adding more variation to the format of addons, but to make them use one and only one format and then provide an installation utility. I would love to see a discussion about how to do that.

Harald

[Bob Hegwood]

the solution should not be adding more variation to the format of addons, but to make them use one and only one format and then provide an installation utility.

Right on, Harald...

I agree that this approach would make more sense,
especially for use Brain-Dead types.

Thanks, Bob

[alphap1us]

There is general agreement that the motherlode should not host exe or other executable files, of the reasons given above. it is funny you mentioned this when you did, Frank, because we were just having a discussion on the list about hwo to mkae installation easier. I created the article in the Celestia Wikibook about how to install add-ons without instructions (Runar, if you mant to pretty this up, feel free), but it would be really nice if we had a standard to refer to so that they woudl install easily.

There will be times when these standards just have to broken for large and complicated add-ons liek the Educational Activites or Billow Maidens, but hopefully add-ons that require changes to the standard will have simple and clear instructions as those two sets of add-ons do.

I anyone who is looking for a way to make contribution wants to go through the add-ons with obsolete packages and update them, they would earn my gratitude.

Cheers,
Joe

[fsgregs]

Thanks everyone for your reasoned comments!

I am what I would call a reasonably knowledgeable computer user. Honestly, I have never liked zip programs. There are a few reasons:

1. The read-me file may be accessible, but only if you open the zip file with an archive extractor. For example, Winzip Wizard view does not show you any files which you can examine in advance. Winzip "classic" view, however, will list all the files inside a zip file. If you scroll down the list, you can find the file named "Read-me", if one was put there by the add-on author. Then, you can double-click on it to open it, and hopefully, it will explain where to unzip the zip file. You then click through several options, tell the program which file your Celestia main directory is in, (or your extras directory, or your textures directory, etc.) and click on "unzip" or whatever command there is. The files will be put in the right folders, provided you set the add-on up properly. This seems OK, but a user must be told in advance (somewhere) to open the add-on zip file with winzip classic view, or some other program's archive examination feature so that the read-me file can be found. Unfortunately, in some of my large add-ons, there are 40 - 60 files. In a VT texture add-on, there could be several hundred files. That is a big list to scroll through to search for a read-me file. I am unaware of any other place a read-me file will be found if you are examining the zip file before you unzip it.

Honestly, this is a problem for lots of folks. My wife for example has been using computers for years. She has NEVER unzipped anything in her life and doesn't even know what zipping or unzipping means, let alone knowing how to launch winzip in classic view. In contrast, she would never have a problem with an automatic installer file. Click once on it, a read-me file appears automatically, she reads it, chooses what folder to install into (usually C:/Program Files/Celestia) and bingo ... it is done.

2. Many add-ons are poorly set up for an untrained user to install. They consist of ssc files or textures or meshes that the add-on creator has placed "loose" in the zip. Some don't even come with a read-me file. It is up to the downloader to figure out where to put them.

For those reasons, I had hoped that we could begin to use some kind of installer utility. Harry, I agree that such a utility is sorely needed. I thought that an exe installer utility WAS an installer utility.

Anyway, I understand your concerns about security and viruses. Frankly, however, if I create an exe add-on file, I really don't know how a virus could get into it, unless I put one there intentionally. I assume some malicious forum reader could offer up an exe add-on that contained malware intentionally placed, but ... perhaps I'm too trusting. I would never assume that would happen in Celestia ciberspace What would be the point!!

The issue of exe installers not working on MACs and Linux is a thorny one. Is there no solution to that? Is there no program that will take a WIN exe file and convert it to a MAC or Linux exe file? (I have no idea!!).

I agree that having an installer do anything to the registry is a bit scary, but obviously, add-ons do not need registry input at all. The program I referenced had such a capability, but I could not foresee any needing it in any add-on I created.

If exe installers are not the answer, then let's come up with another utility that even a 10 year old could use to install a Celestia add-on. Perhaps all add-ons to be offered on the forum or motherlode, for example, MUST be offered as zip files with a mandatory read-me file. Perhaps there is a way for a read-me file to open automatically when a zip file is clicked (are there any open souce zip file programs that we could modify that way??)

Perhaps we can get a zip program to more closely mimic the ease of use of an exe file. For example, zip programs will automatically launch an exe installation file if it is zipped. Could we create some kind of common routine ... a file to be included by add-on creators with all add-ons, that would trigger the zip program to begin automatically installing the files into whatever Celestia folder destination we desire??

Another option would be for me to offer exe installer files on my own website (at fs.gregs.org/celestia). Zip files of my add-ons would stay on Motherlode and Windows and MAC EXE file versions of those add-ons would be available on my website. The user could take their pick.

More dialog please. What makes the most sense to everyone???

Frank

[steffens]

I am strongly against using exe-Installers for the reasons already given above. What is really needed is some more care of the addon creators to package their archives with correct paths, case sensitive names and a proper read-me. As Harry mentioned on the forum at the motherloe, an addon should simply be extracted to any subfolder of extras/ to work.
If this can be achieved, installation is easy, and could even be done automatically - by an addon-manager internal to celestia for instance, which was discussed some time ago.
There are lots of guidelines around on how to create good addons. Maybe there should be a summary about that on a prominent location...

steffens

[maxim]

Honestly, this is a problem for lots of folks. My wife for example has been using computers for years. She has NEVER unzipped anything in her life and doesn't even know what zipping or unzipping means, let alone knowing how to launch winzip in classic view. In contrast, she would never have a problem with an automatic installer file. Click once on it, a read-me file appears automatically, she reads it, chooses what folder to install into (usually C:/Program Files/Celestia) and bingo ... it is done.

Winzip (as I know it) adds some entries to your context menue. One of them is 'Extract Here'. Also it allows you to retain your directory structure while zipping. So if you carefully keep the directory structure needed for your addon (starting with 'extras' for example), then all the user has to do, is to put the zip-archive into the celestia main folder, right click it, choose 'Extract Here', and that's it. Everything will be unzipped into the appropriate subfolders and work instantly. All that has to be done is to get to a common agreement on the structure of addon archives. There also has to be no search for the readme file - it's the only one in the toplevel view of the archive except for the 'extras' subdir.

You may check for some of my more complicated addons, where I tried to follow that path.

Anyway, I understand your concerns about security and viruses. Frankly, however, if I create an exe add-on file, I really don't know how a virus could get into it, unless I put one there intentionally. I assume some malicious forum reader could offer up an exe add-on that contained malware intentionally placed, but ... perhaps I'm too trusting. I would never assume that would happen in Celestia ciberspace icon_eek.gif What would be the point!!

As a community grows, it becomes more attractive to attackers. No one thinks that one of the community members will include malware into addon archives. But, as we have seen recently, it will be quite easy for attackers to hack one of the download sites, and force requests to be redirected to a indentical looking fake site, where all downloads are infected. Or just hack your personal download site. Or just put some identical looking addon archives on the net and label them 'mirror to franks educational addons'. Or something else out of dozens of possibilities.

maxim

[jdou]

I too, I prefer not use .exe files.

But, all these remarks mean we need (I first) that our explanations be more accurate and complete in the readme files joined to our add-ons.

It's true, when I write "these VT are for BlueMarble 32K" somebody can say "What is BlueMarble ? Which version ?, Where is that to be found ? etc...

So, next time, my "install" file will be better (I hope)

Just a tip for fsgregs

In a VT texture add-on, there could be several hundred files. That is a big list to scroll through to search for a read-me file. I am unaware of any other place a read-me file will be found if you are examining the zip file before you unzip it.

If you rename your "readme" file to "install" or "A_readme" this one will be the first in alphabetic order

jdou

[t00fri]

Frank,

My wife for example has been using computers for years. She has NEVER unzipped anything in her life and doesn't even know what zipping or unzipping means, let alone knowing how to launch winzip in classic view.

...I have just checked with my wife... she also does not know how to use zip/unzip since i) she never uses Windows and ii) she rarely installs anything.

Here is what she said: "Well if I was really keen to install a particular program, I would take a few minutes to read the Winzip-docs... I am confident that I could handle this."

What you seem to imply above is that for this simple alternative, either a superb intelligence or a tremendous motivation is needed that many people are lacking...

What you seem to suggest is that we should rather invest hundreds of developer hours to code and test a sophisticated installation tool that can still be operated by users without guts or motivation. Right?

Bye Fridger

PS: OK, a sufficient number of people have pointed out already that .EXE is out, since Celestia is a Multi-Platform application...and since .EXE is dangerous. So I can save my comments here.

[fsgregs]

OK, I GIVE UP. Boy, I had no idea so many people did not like install exe files. They are so easy to use. Wow!!

Fridger, as usual, your approach is unpleasantly harsh Unlike the circles you (and I'm sure your wife) travel in, my explosure to people is a bit different. In my town (a conservative, religious section of Northern Virginia), folks here think George W. Bush is a great man, believe aliens have certainly landed on Earth in the past, and are awaiting the 2nd coming!! When dealing with THIS audience, THEY cannot easily navigate zip files. It is a struggle to teach them where the Celestia folder is, let alone ask them to unzip a zip file into it. I have found that a great many people in America are similiar. Perhaps it is too much mercury in the air we breathe. Even teachers in my high school are intimidated by computers, and have all sorts of screwy beliefs. So coming down on me for daring to suggest we make their Celestia experience easier to do by using an installer file, kind of ticks me off

I will offer exe add-on files on my own website, for anyone who wishes to use them, while at the same time, continuing to offer any add-ons I make in zip format available on Motherlode, fully divided into the proper folders with read-me files.

If anyone does want to further consider a Celestia add-on manager, I would fully support it in any way I can.

Frank

[John Van Vliet]

hi --just putting in my 2 cents

Windows Only

7-zip will make an auto self extracting file , but it would nead to be set to open in the celestia root dir .

linux

if you use this then you allready can install them by hand



aneway it is MS that turned the world into computer users that have no idia how to use this machine

[jdou]

Hi Fridger,

You are a lucky man.
My wife has never open any handbook before try to use computer, video recorder or even clock set...
So, She still needs me
But I agree with you.
When you like something It's nothing to do some efforts to understand and get involved with it.
Even Bob can do! (I joke )
In the meantime, we have to find a solution to give the first stepladder for thus who like us "love" Celestia.
This solution could be to formalize a install procedure for all addons or for all addons of same kinds (if it's possible?).

jdou

[Bob Hegwood]

Thanks for the confidence Jdou.

Here's a thought though... Seems to me that the average
Celestia User is going to know how to handle zip files in
any case, aren't they?

I mean, judging from the wide variety of physicists, doctors,
engineers, computer scientists, planetary biologists, and
well-educated internet users who visit here, seems to me that
this is a moot point. If you use the internet, you'll have
to know how to use zip files at some point, yes?

Certainly there are a wide variety of free zip programs
available, and almost all of these have detailed instructions
for the novice.

So, what's the big deal? Maybe we just need a brief tutorial
in a text document for those of us who have NOT used a zip
program before. Certainly anyone interested in Celestia will
have enough sense to be able to read and understand zip
programs. <shrug>

Thanks, Bob

[maxim]

OK, I GIVE UP. Boy, I had no idea so many people did not like install exe files. They are so easy to use. Wow!!

zip files shouldn't be more complicated to use if explained in the right way.
Anyway, I think this is a good discussion helping to find a formalized way to create and structure addons. So I would really like to see your critics or the problems you've experienced in a listlike form like problem->solution or zip/exe->advantage/disadvantage. All I could extract so far is the lack of a pre-viewable readme file and the problem of users finding the Celestia directory. What did I miss?

Regarding the poor understanding of computers:
That's a general problem, that is by far not limited to celestia or addons. I know what you are describing, and I also tried to teach people some simple computer usage. People who have no problem to navigate through the non-intuitive, sometimes unlogic menus of mobile phones, but get puzzled if told that there are such things like context menues, or that you even can right-click on things. People that get completely irritated when finding out that clicking on different object result in different context menues. That is a kind of social problem regarding the myths that are generated about computers, and has to be adressed in a different way I think.

But as a computer professional, I don't feel very well by the idea to 'ease' things for them by providing just more stuff in form of exe files. This I-don't-want-to-learn-anything-new additude combined with the I-won't-read-a-word-in-any-manual obstinacy is one of the reasons for those big security/worm/virus/hacker problems the computer business is suffering of. A lot of organizations try to adress the problem by providing exe installation files - the last time I've got a such one when I downloaded that NASA earth viewer - not only that the installation process tried to establish a permanent internet connection, it also fiddled around in my registry, changed mime type defaults, installed some more helper programs and tried to force me to install even more microsoft stuff. It took me half an hour to remove everything by hand that the uninstallation procedure just left there. From Nasas view that might have been the only way to provide people with an 'easy' single exe file procedure and to avoid complains about that their stuff is to complicated and not working. But instead those people will bug their 'friends' after some of these installations, when their computer is totally garbadged.

Perhaps a single, well written, richly pictured educational manual of how to navigate through the file structure of ones computer, and how to use zip files would be the more convenient way, and would even help people to better understand their computer.

maxim

[Harry]

All I could extract so far is the lack of a pre-viewable readme file and the problem of users finding the Celestia directory.

And AFAIK the problem of users not finding the Celestia directory doesn't go away with self-extracting executables. The actual path to the extras directory depends on the installation of Celestia (and there can be more than one) as well as the language used (e.g. in germany the path typically starts with "C:\Programme" instead of "C:\Program Files"). Maybe the latter can be taken care of automatically, but not the former.

There are more problems associated with installing. For example nobody mentioned yet that assuming the user has permissions to write to the Celestia installation directory is a bad idea. The extras dir (or at least one extras dir) should be per-user, which would require Celestia to support some mechanism to enter this path e.g. as "${HOME}" in celestia.cfg.

Harald

[Harry]

In the hope that this will actually get a result out of this (or similar) discussion I've created a new page with a couple of addon-requirements here:
http://www.celestiamotherlode.net/addon_requirements.php

This is at the moment just a quick write-down of ideas, partially based on work done some time ago by Selden and Don Goyette, and should be considered just a starting point on the way to a set of requirements which someday actually will be enforced. I'd like to see some corrections or improvements for this, e.g. more examples of addon-types which technically require manual installation.

Harald

[Toti]

Harald,

The internal format of surface textures should always be explicitly mentioned in the addon zip name, like some authors do; e.g.:

myAddon_DDS.zip
myAddon_JPG.zip

Not all video hardware can deal with the DDS format and the conversion to another one isn't as straightforward as it should be (often it implies a noticeable image quality loss, too)

A couple of times after a long (dialup) download I realized that the respective addon had DDS textures, which my NVidia TNT2 just couldn't handle.

Bye