What I think stars should look like in Celestia

General discussion about Celestia that doesn't fit into other forums.
Topic author
Evil Dr Ganymede
Posts: 1386
Joined: 06.06.2003
With us: 21 years 5 months

What I think stars should look like in Celestia

Post #1by Evil Dr Ganymede » 23.06.2004, 17:28

A bit of a pipe dream perhaps, but I think it'd be very cool if stars looked like this in Celestia when you were close to them:

Image

OK, without the horizontal lens-flare, but you see what I mean? The star actually looks bright, rather than like a dull red or yellow orb. (the other colours have a slight tint to them, so a B V would be blueish - this one's an M V IIRC)


This is from the very pretty EVE-Online MMORPG (which is horribly addictive), if anyone's curious as to where it's from...

Rassilon
Posts: 1887
Joined: 29.01.2002
With us: 22 years 10 months
Location: Altair

Post #2by Rassilon » 23.06.2004, 18:13

I agree...Although it will never happen...Cinematics is not what Chris wants in Celestia....

The lens flare might not be so bad although...probably debateable at the least...

You can however increase flare brightness by overlaying a mesh of sorts on top of the star...along with a ssc coded emissive planet increasing the atmospherics a tad...

Thats probably as close as it gets....
I'm trying to teach the cavemen how to play scrabble, its uphill work. The only word they know is Uhh and they dont know how to spell it!

Topic author
Evil Dr Ganymede
Posts: 1386
Joined: 06.06.2003
With us: 21 years 5 months

Post #3by Evil Dr Ganymede » 23.06.2004, 18:33

Rassilon wrote:I agree...Although it will never happen...Cinematics is not what Chris wants in Celestia....


It's not the "cinematics" I'm wanting to see though... it's just that same "bright" effect shown in the picture. It's often been pointed out that the brightness of a star is limited by the power of the monitor, but this at least gives you the impression that you ARE looking at something bright instead of a dull looking yellow ball with a few sunspots.

The glow around the star in the picture is pretty good too I think - I think the stars in Celestia look too feeble really. Obviously the halo and lens flare is subject to debate - I wouldn't want to see those in Celestia myself.

maxim
Posts: 1036
Joined: 13.11.2003
With us: 21 years
Location: N?rnberg, Germany

Post #4by maxim » 24.06.2004, 12:07

I agree too. I find it looking more 'real' this way than in the bulb version.

As it was mentioned in another thread, you will find most (all?) suns looking some sort of white to you when looking frome closed up. So a white core with a tinted coronaic glow would probably more the kind of look you are supposed to have in real - not those colored bubbles you have now.

I also remember that chris did some remarks about the new nvidia stuff, that their hardware shaders support this kind of lighting, and that he will use that posibilities instead of coding an own software version of it.

maxim

Rassilon
Posts: 1887
Joined: 29.01.2002
With us: 22 years 10 months
Location: Altair

Post #5by Rassilon » 24.06.2004, 13:32

I personally think stars should be completely software rendered and at the same time be able to customise the way they look...color would be a good start...

The software rendered star should look like this....

Image

Not the prettiest example but you get the idea...A simple illuminated globe is all...I think the only time one would see the actual texture of the star is when a red giant is rendered and is dark enough...And in this case the texture could be a procedural one using perlin noise...
I'm trying to teach the cavemen how to play scrabble, its uphill work. The only word they know is Uhh and they dont know how to spell it!

Avatar
selden
Developer
Posts: 10192
Joined: 04.09.2002
With us: 22 years 2 months
Location: NY, USA

Post #6by selden » 24.06.2004, 13:39

Personally, I'd like the brightness of objects to be completely controllable within Celestia, maybe with the Magnitude adjustment. It'd be nice to control whether the local star is "blindingly bright" or has sunspots visible, for example, and how bright Nebulas are.
Selden

ajtribick
Developer
Posts: 1855
Joined: 11.08.2003
With us: 21 years 3 months

Post #7by ajtribick » 24.06.2004, 19:06

maxim wrote:I agree too. I find it looking more 'real' this way than in the bulb version.

As it was mentioned in another thread, you will find most (all?) suns looking some sort of white to you when looking frome closed up. So a white core with a tinted coronaic glow would probably more the kind of look you are supposed to have in real - not those colored bubbles you have now.


Hmm, would this appearance of white apply to carbon stars as well - as I understand it there are significant wavelengths missing from the spectrum...

BTW Checking through the source files it seems the colour of Wolf-Rayet stars would be quite easy to add (if you had a suitable compiler) - is there any idea what a suitable colour would be?

granthutchison
Developer
Posts: 1863
Joined: 21.11.2002
With us: 22 years

Post #8by granthutchison » 24.06.2004, 22:37

chaos syndrome wrote:Hmm, would this appearance of white apply to carbon stars as well - as I understand it there are significant wavelengths missing from the spectrum...
The human eye is hugely tolerant of spectral drop-outs, since it only has three colour receptors, each of which responds to a broad range of wavelengths - remember that even the spectrally crippled output of the coloured phosphors on your monitor screen can fool your eyes into seeing white.

chaos syndrome wrote:Checking through the source files it seems the colour of Wolf-Rayet stars would be quite easy to add (if you had a suitable compiler) - is there any idea what a suitable colour would be?
Although the spectrum is filled with C and N emission spikes, they wouldn't be that noticeable, I think (see above for the relevant argument). So a black body of around 50000K might roughly fit the bill: [0.53 0.64 1.00] on my Dell monitor. This is pretty robust for the range of predicted temperatures for Wolf-Rayets, since the high frequencies of the black body spectrum are close to being an exponential curve, which is pretty much self-similar whichever part of it crosses the visible range: 100000K comes out at [0.50 0.62 1.00], for instance, which doesn't look at all different to 50000K.

Grant

Topic author
Evil Dr Ganymede
Posts: 1386
Joined: 06.06.2003
With us: 21 years 5 months

Post #9by Evil Dr Ganymede » 25.06.2004, 05:29

Rassilon wrote:I personally think stars should be completely software rendered and at the same time be able to customise the way they look...color would be a good start...

The software rendered star should look like this....

Image


Definitely... I think we're on the same wavelength (sic). :)

Avatar
t00fri
Developer
Posts: 8772
Joined: 29.03.2002
Age: 22
With us: 22 years 8 months
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post #10by t00fri » 25.06.2004, 20:19

I want this:

Filters to look at stars (our sun) in different wave length bands!

Bye Fridger

Image

Topic author
Evil Dr Ganymede
Posts: 1386
Joined: 06.06.2003
With us: 21 years 5 months

Post #11by Evil Dr Ganymede » 25.06.2004, 21:25

t00fri wrote:I want this:
Filters to look at stars (our sun) in different wave length bands!
[/img]


Can we not just use alternate textures for stars?

Avatar
t00fri
Developer
Posts: 8772
Joined: 29.03.2002
Age: 22
With us: 22 years 8 months
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post #12by t00fri » 25.06.2004, 21:32

Evil Dr Ganymede wrote:
t00fri wrote:I want this:
Filters to look at stars (our sun) in different wave length bands!
[/img]

Can we not just use alternate textures for stars?


Certainly, that's what it amounts to in practice.

What I would also like very much is to have a spectroscopic mode where we can compare the spectra, redshifts and all that among different stars just by clicking...There is a huge amount of spectroscopic data available.

Bye Fridger

alphap1us
Posts: 212
Joined: 17.12.2003
With us: 20 years 11 months
Location: Buenos Aires

Post #13by alphap1us » 25.06.2004, 22:34

Greeting Good Doctor, (and Evil One,)
The spectroscopic idea is really fascinating, but is probably far off, no?

Firdiger, would you be willing to make a couple of alternate textures from the pictures you keep teasing us with, in the interim? It wouldn't take long, and I always thought having that red "magma" texture would be better than having the sun look like verything else.

Once Celestia can vary my view across wavelengths, Celestia will be better than real life!

Avatar
t00fri
Developer
Posts: 8772
Joined: 29.03.2002
Age: 22
With us: 22 years 8 months
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post #14by t00fri » 26.06.2004, 00:30

alphap1us wrote:Greeting Good Doctor, (and Evil One,)
The spectroscopic idea is really fascinating, but is probably far off, no?

Firdiger, would you be willing to make a couple of alternate textures from the pictures you keep teasing us with, in the interim? It wouldn't take long, and I always thought having that red "magma" texture would be better than having the sun look like verything else.

Once Celestia can vary my view across wavelengths, Celestia will be better than real life!


OK :lol:

here is a very quick 1k texture hack from the red SOHO data. Of course this is nothing serious....I can do much better if anyone is really interested. In particular, by using different colorizations and texture patterns in the various mipmaps that will show up at different distances one should be able to produce an interesting zoom-in effect. I'll play with this idea a little tomorrow...

Bye Fridger
Image

Avatar
t00fri
Developer
Posts: 8772
Joined: 29.03.2002
Age: 22
With us: 22 years 8 months
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post #15by t00fri » 26.06.2004, 13:50

Watch the (almost real time) rotating SOHO sun
in 1/4 of the available texture resolution!

Bye Fridger
Image Image

jestr
Posts: 612
Joined: 14.09.2003
With us: 21 years 2 months
Location: Bridgwater,UK

Post #16by jestr » 26.06.2004, 15:03

Wow great images,wouldn't it be great,as you say,to have the option to see the sun at these different wavelengths,and to be able to see these almost realtime sunspots etc,in Celestia.Jestr

Rassilon
Posts: 1887
Joined: 29.01.2002
With us: 22 years 10 months
Location: Altair

Post #17by Rassilon » 27.06.2004, 04:28

To support the features Fridger mentions...An alternate texture method might be in order for stc files...

With texture replacement I ended up changing the look of the stars to fit in with my formentioned request...

Image

I think this is what were looking for in the way stars should look, atleast a start in the right direction...I will package the textures for a release on Monday if anyones is interested...Here is the star flare I use in the meantime!

Image

Both of these together I think is what stars in Celestia should look like imho...With software rendering...the corona could be added to appear as flame as shown in Fridgers examples...Not to mention animation if at all possible...This is why I think software rendered stars would be far superior...
I'm trying to teach the cavemen how to play scrabble, its uphill work. The only word they know is Uhh and they dont know how to spell it!

Avatar
fsgregs
Posts: 1307
Joined: 07.10.2002
With us: 22 years 1 month
Location: Manassas, VA

Post #18by fsgregs » 02.07.2004, 02:24

Rassilon:

Yes, please load the star textures for download from your site. I want them. :D My only comment involves the size of the sunspots. The star textures in Celestia have GIGANTIC sunspots. Is that real? I thought sunspots were relatively small (dots really). Every time I look at a photo of the Sun in visible light, the sunspots are tiny dots.

What do you think?

Also, could you please post a sample ssc file to superimpose the texture onto a star (other than our Sun)? Thanks.

Frank

Bob Hegwood
Posts: 1048
Joined: 19.10.2003
With us: 21 years 1 month
Location: Germantown, Ohio - USA

Post #19by Bob Hegwood » 02.07.2004, 05:19

Mr. Rassilon,

If I can add my two cents worth? Would be a *very* nice way to view
the different types of stars in Celestia. Would love to see a package for these
features. Very nice indeed.

Thanks, Bob
Bob Hegwood
Windows XP-SP2, 256Meg 1024x768 Resolution
Intel Celeron 1400 MHz CPU
Intel 82815 Graphics Controller
OpenGL Version: 1.1.2 - Build 4.13.01.3196
Celestia 1.4.0 Pre6 FT1

Rassilon
Posts: 1887
Joined: 29.01.2002
With us: 22 years 10 months
Location: Altair

Post #20by Rassilon » 02.07.2004, 17:48

I am sorry I didnt post these earlier...I was sick...I should have them up tonight sometime...
I'm trying to teach the cavemen how to play scrabble, its uphill work. The only word they know is Uhh and they dont know how to spell it!


Return to “Celestia Users”