Europa is not so detailed

[danielj]

Look at this link
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpegMo ... modest.jpg
When you get nearer to Europa,why we can?t see details as fine as this.Even the 8k texture for Europa looks a bit coarsed.

[alphap1us]

Hello danielj,
Your comments are a little hard to understand. Europa is not so detailed becasue no one has made a more detailed texutre for it. The links you provided show some small areas of surface texture, but I don't know of any full-surface maps that show that much detail. Unless you know of a complete, detailed map, someone would have to make up the rest fo the details, and I don't think its worth it to do this for a moon that already has 8k resolution. Cheers,

Joe

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

There aren't any near-surface maps that show much detail. Europa's surface is mindbogglingly complex when you look closely at it - I think it's much better not to bother with all the cracks and ridges etc and just leave it as it is.

The Galileo Europa Images page shows this more clearly - the "global mapping" link there is about as much detail as we need here - the fine-scale double ridges and cracks and things like that are just too small to see from any appreciable distance.

[selden]

Of course, if someone really wants detailed surface textures, it might be appropriate for that person to create a Virtual Texture.

[t00fri]

Look at this link
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpegMo ... modest.jpg
When you get nearer to Europa,why we can?t see details as fine as this.Even the 8k texture for Europa looks a bit coarsed.

danielj,

you make frequent posts in this forum,... too frequent perhaps??

I am amazed by the lack of self-criticism/common-sense that is apparent from your many "questions" or frequent Celestia-critiques you tend to post almost exclusively.

For example, you could have easily found out the answer of your question above, by looking at the respective official texture server (to be found with Goggle in 1 minute) for Europa. Inspect the texture and understand why it is as it is...

Sorry for intervening ...I am half-way on "retirement" anyway...

Bye Fridger

[Psykotik]

Sorry for intervening ...I am half-way on "retirement" anyway...

Sorry to hear this... you have to have very strong motives ?

[t00fri]

Sorry for intervening ...I am half-way on "retirement" anyway...

Sorry to hear this... you have to have very strong motives ?

Psykotik,

yes, I am afraid so...

i) The level of discussions in the forum has strongly declined during the last 1/2 year or so. Many "interesting" guys have become inactive...I am often bored, by the posts recently.

2) http://www.shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4867

3) I am badly frustrated:

After my thread Conformal Mapping of the Entire (!) Universe in Celestia
http://www.shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4724&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

that has been visited by 1637 (!) people with lots of interest expressed by 54 posts...the only reaction by Chris 1 1/2 months ago was

I think it's quite an interesting idea, but I'm afraid I haven't had time to reply in detail or do much else in the way of Celestia development lately. That will change in a couple days.

--Chris

Notably with Walton (Wcomer) and Selden we had spent already lots of interesting planning and exploratory work in this exciting, possible mainstream extension of Celestia...

Bye Fridger

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

t00fri - I don't think you're being very fair here. First, not everyone who uses Celestia is an astronomy wiz, and they may not think to check google for everything or look things up first (daniel's question wasn't all that unreasonable a question to ask either, and as Selden points out one can make a Virtual Texture like Earth has). Slagging Daniel off for "posting too many questions" seems very impatient and not very helpful.

Second, conformally mapping the universe isn't going to be interesting to everyone - I know I'm not that interested in distant galaxies and I don't think mapping the whole universe is that essential to Celestia. It's interesting, sure, but I imagine Chris has a different set of priorities than what you'd like him to have.

[t00fri]

t00fri - I don't think you're being very fair here.

....

Second, conformally mapping the universe isn't going to be interesting to everyone - I know I'm not that interested in distant galaxies and I don't think mapping the whole universe is that essential to Celestia. It's interesting, sure, but I imagine Chris has a different set of priorities than what you'd like him to have.

Evil Dr. ,

I have not been complaining about lack of interest! In fact, as I recalled, there was a lot of interest from quite a number of people.

I complain that there has been an almost total lack of feedback by Chris. First of all I normally know what I am talking about. Second, I think getting feedback is only fair after being a member in the development crew for > 2 years...I am perfectly ready to listen to arguments of any sort.

But there were no arguments at all, and that's why I am frustrated. Is this so hard to understand? If there is no discussion anymore, how can we make progress at all??

I would say you entirely twisted what I said ...

Bye Fridger

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

Sorry - if I twisted anything, it's because of the the way you phrased your post - it sounded like you were just being upset because people weren't doing things that were interesting to you.

Frankly, I suspect the conformal universe thing went over a lot of peoples' heads anyway... IIRC the discussion was somewhat technical (and I think the topic may be rather obscure too). For all I know, you may have not got any negative arguments because people either just didn't understand the point of it or they couldn't follow what anyone was saying...

Be that as it may, if you've been using online forums for a while, you should know by now that sometimes you have to resurrect these threads yourself occasionally in order to kickstart more interest in them.

But still, I don't think it's helpful to start thinking that Chris is just ignoring you. He may just be busy on other things. Or maybe he thought others were handling it? He might even just not think it's worth adding to Celestia himself. You're better off asking him directly than complaining about it here though.

[Bob Hegwood]

But still, I don't think it's helpful to start thinking that Chris is just ignoring you. He may just be busy on other things. Or maybe he thought others were handling it? He might even just not think it's worth adding to Celestia himself. You're better off asking him directly than complaining about it here though.

Snippy, aren't we?

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

Snippy, aren't we?

No, we're not. You savaged daniel in another thread - unjustifiably I think, like t00fri did here - and I called you "snippy" on it.

All I'm saying here is that I don't see the point of whining about Chris not doing something in public - it's surely better to try asking him what's going on first in private.

[Bob Hegwood]

You savaged daniel in another thread - unjustifiably I think, like t00fri did here - and I called you "snippy" on it.

Well *I* think it *more* than justified... Out of over 200 posts by Daniel, not ONE
has anything positive to say about this great project. And you think I'm being
"Snippy?"

Fact is I'm just plain-old outraged by this behavior. So you're telling me that
it's okay to post 200 messages saying what a crappy program this is, but I'm being
snippy when I express a *very* small part of my considerable anger that this
person causes in me by *constantly* giving the folks who have created this fantastic
resource nothing but grief.

I guess you live on the same planet that he does. <shrug>

Until I get thrown off of the forum, I will continue to express my outrage at this
behaviour. If you don't like it, then don't read it.

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

That's funny, I've just done a search for danielj's posts here using the Search function and I can't find many (if any at all) that complain or put down anyone's work for Celestia. Furthermore, I've found a few that praise people's work for it too (e.g. Jestr's Spirit in Gusev crater).

There's times where he obviously doesn't understand why something isn't working, but that's entirely different to slagging off work that people have done or saying that Celestia is "crappy".

But hey, if you want to fume and rage about it, then that's your problem. Just don't get in the way when the rest of us try to help him find a solution to whatever he's asking about. Assuming that your attitude hasn't scared him off, that is.

[Psykotik]

That's funny, I've just done a search for danielj's posts here using the Search function and I can't find many (if any at all) that complain or put down anyone's work for Celestia. Furthermore, I've found a few that praise people's work for it too (e.g. Jestr's Spirit in Gusev crater).

Obviousily, you're not sincere. I know how many plugins Celestia has, only by counting the number of posts of Daniel saying "it doesn't work", "this is a crappy work", and so on.

I may understand you're not pleased with the Bob anger (btw, mine too). But we have been exceeded by the number AND the quality of daniel's posts : the rudeness of Daniel is intolerable.

As said Bob :

I guess you live on the same planet that he does. <shrug>

I don't think beeing upset against Bob (btw, me) because he is upset against Daniel is the solution; but, alas, that's life... IMHO, it seems that Daniel understood our anger, and try to participate in a different way, since a few days. Wait and see.

t00fri : well, that's 2 months I'm waiting a response from Chris about a bug. The day I'll couldn't wait anymore, I'd wrote an email to him I think he can't read every post, take the time to respond to every question, because physically, a day is 24 hours (on Earth). Try to stay away one week of the forum, and when you'll come back, check ALL the new posts; you'll spend some hours ! I mean, he has to choose between coding and the forum.

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

Again, I'm looking at the search page and I'm not seeing ones where he's saying Celestia is "crappy work" if there are, then please point them out to me because I'm either missing them or they're not there. I see plenty where he says "this thing doesn't work" or "why don't we have this?" and perhaps not thinking about it before he asks a question, but that's not the same at all. Sure, he seems a bit brusque with it at time, but I get the (possibly mistaken) impression that English isn't his first language and that may explain it in part.

Either way, I don't see how flipping out and losing your patience over him is helping anyone. Particularly if, as you say, he's been getting better about it lately. There wasn't anything particularly offensive about his question here that warranted the kind of response he got.

[Bob Hegwood]

There wasn't anything offensive about what I said to him either...

Now YOU'RE the one who's got the problem.

Love and Kisses...

[Psykotik]

English is my fifth langage, and I badly speak/read it. It is not a justification.

BTW, I won't prove what I argue, since you can do an explicite search yourself with a little bit of bona fides (?), and mostly because I think it isn't related to Europa Enough pathos for me, I don't come to this forum to have conflicts. Some people are about to leaving, I won't be the cause to boring some more.

More by PM, which is the perfect way for this kind of discussion.

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

Bob - I tire of your puerile parting shots. Grow up.

Psyk - thanks for the PM. All I know is that I've seen people who don't speak English well on other forums, and sometimes they come across as being abrupt and too direct because of the way they phrase things, in a similar way to Daniel.

For all I know, English may be his first language (it doesn't look like it though) in which case I may be wrong about him. But either way, I still don't think the questions he asked about Europa and Venus warranted the reaction they got from Bob and t00fri. I think they're taking Daniel's posts far too personally.

To someone who is new to the forums reading these threads, that kind of response does not give a good impression of the people on these forums - this is unhelpful since there are plenty of more helpful, patient people here like Selden and Grant.

[Bob Hegwood]

Doctor Ganymede,

I'm truly sorry that you don't like what I have to say, and I'll try to restrain
myself in the future. My anger got the better of me, and I apologize.

I *do* think that I should have the right to express my opinion though. Just as
you have the right to criticize my posts, then I have the right to say what *I* think.
Admittedly, my posts are not phrased in politically-correct terminology, but I'm
afraid that I just can't help that. I am what I am.

Take care, Bob