Celestia Forums

I thought that it was a compressed file,but Winzip says that is not a valid file.Someone made a 8k normal map of the Moon,but there is something wrong with the download...

Daniel, you can get mine from here or here. It's an 8k/4k/2k map from Kaguya data. The file is 7.7MB. (But I'm sure John's will be better.)

Guillermo

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abramson wrote:Daniel, you can get mine from here or here. It's an 8k/4k/2k map from Kaguya data. The file is 7.7MB. (But I'm sure John's will be better.)

Guillermo

wow i didn't knew that this mission released height data
can someone make a bump map out of that data or convert the normal map because celestia does not render correct normal maps , it makes craters shine like they are made out of reflective material when viewed from a low angle
look at this pic

JAY_1976 wrote:wow i didn't knew that this mission released height data
can someone make a bump map out of that data or convert the normal map because celestia does not render correct normal maps , it makes craters shine like they are made out of reflective material when viewed from a low angle

Celestia converts any bump map internally into a normal map. So that's a bad idea.
I get an excellent rendering by using MY nmtools

http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewtopic.php?t=70
Tutorial: http://www.celestialmatters.org/?q=node/10

to make the normal map.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15600&start=4

Practically all other normalmap programs are incorrect for spherical bodies. Most people used my nmtools so far in the Kaguya moon context.

The best is to use John Van Vliet's latest remapped Clementine base texture together with it.

Fridger

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JAY_1976 wrote: it makes craters shine like they are made out of reflective material when viewed from a low angle

Turn your Lunar Lambart off in the SSC file. That is what is causing it.

the LunarLambert doesn't make any difference besides i don't want to to switch it off because it makes moons look realistic.
I don't know guys but things look to me too exaggerated with normal mapping in Celestia.I tried many normal maps with Earth Moon and Mars and they all look awful.

JAY_1976 wrote:the LunarLambert doesn't make any difference besides i don't want to to switch it off because it makes moons look realistic.
I don't know guys but things look to me too exaggerated with normal mapping in Celestia.I tried many normal maps with Earth Moon and Mars and they all look awful.

I hope you know that for the Moon the problem is NOT normal mapping, but the poor quality and bad matching of the Clementine base texture data with the new Kaguya elevation data. That's why John has set out to remap and match the Clementine data to the new Kaguya data that are much more accurate. If you did not use my nmtools but some other tool then this might also be a reason for poor success. With the nmtools, you simply specify the desired elevation size. Hence, if a normalmap looks exaggerated for your taste, simply lower the elevation scale.

For Mars, the story is quite analogous. Insiders know this problem since years. That's why I use a specially matched set of signed 16bit binary elevation data and 32k base texture.

But of course no-one wants to impose on you in any way .

Fridger

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Thanks

I FOUND A BUMP MAP MADE FROM THE KAGUYA DATA !!

the forum is this
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/inde ... 6281&st=15

and the map ( TIFF 16 BIT / 26 MEg ) is this

http://unmannedspaceflight.com/assets/k ... er.tif.zip

and i feel happy now

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JAY_1976 wrote:I don't know guys but things look to me too exaggerated with normal mapping in Celestia.I tried many normal maps with Earth Moon and Mars and they all look awful.

Jay, I used an exaggeration of 1.8 in my normalmap (linked above). As Fridger says, you can use any value with his nmtools. Just use 1.0, or even less.

Guillermo

JAY_1976 wrote:Thanks

I FOUND A BUMP MAP MADE FROM THE KAGUYA DATA !!

the forum is this
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/inde ... 6281&st=15

and the map ( TIFF 16 BIT / 26 MEg ) is this

http://unmannedspaceflight.com/assets/k ... er.tif.zip

and i feel happy now

...which indicates that you don't know what happens in Celestia's respective code.

As John mentioned already, Celestia does NOT accept 16bit elevation/bump maps, only 8 bit. Now 8bit elevation means that only 256 steps in altitude are possible for a celestial body. Imagine Mt. Everest on Earth, the altitude profile of which being characterized by just 256 steps...Since internally, Celestia calculates a normalmap from your input bump map, it means furthermore that gradients (<-> normal vectors ) have to be calculated from 8bit values! This MUST give highly unsatisfactory, non-smooth/noisy results, except you have a low-end machine where detail is hardly visible anyhow. . But then your above statement

...because celestia does not render correct normal maps , it makes craters shine like they are made out of reflective material when viewed from a low angle

would have to be taken as a pretty unqualified remark, with that apparently bad normalmap-based rendering being NOT Celestia's fault.

For a smooth and noiseless calculation of gradients, one DOES need 16bit input data, which correspondingly are able to specify 2 ^16 = 65536 elevation steps (instead of merely 256). My nmtools are specializing to handle signed 16bit input elevations. The entire gradient calculation is done at signed 16bit level and a truncation to the required 3x8bit RGB normalmap format only happens at the very end! That's why the result is so much superior.to Celestia's internal normalmap calculation from 8bit external bumpmap data.

Fridger

Yes it's 8 bit but that does not make any visual difference because we are
talking about bump mapping , a visual illusion , not an actual 3d polygon mesh
besides the map resolution is low compared to the height resolution ; a bigger , lets say a 16384x8192 height map would be best for a 16 bit height resolution.

Anyway the thing that i don't like is the visual output of normal maps that's why i want to use the bump map as i mentioned before.

By the way this map has an offset of 180 degrees so it must be shifted
For those who want to use it ; in GIMP do the following
Layer -> Transform -> Offset , set the X value to 2880 and press ok.

JAY_1976 wrote:Yes it's 8 bit but that does not make any visual difference because we are
talking about bump mapping , a visual illusion , not an actual 3d polygon mesh
besides the map resolution is low compared to the height resolution ; a bigger , lets say a 16384x8192 height map would be best for a 16 bit height resolution.

I couldn't disagree more.

Anyway the thing that i don't like is the visual output of normal maps that's why i want to use the bump map as i mentioned before.

Once again: If you use a bump map, it will nevertheless be converted by Celestia's code into a normalmap before anything is rendered!! So you CANNOT avfoid rendering via a normalmap.

By the way this map has an offset of 180 degrees so it must be shifted
For those who want to use it ; in GIMP do the following
Layer -> Transform -> Offset , set the X value to 2880 and press ok.

We discussed all these Kaguya matters in great detail before you started this thread. So most interested people know...

Fridger

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