Celestia Forums

Hi all,

after Chris' continued absence from this forum and notably from Celestia development for months and months, let me ask a few questions in public that keep coming to my mind...

• Sure, Chris has a right for a private life and sure he can take his time to remodel his appartment etc...
• Obviously, apart from shorter trips, he is mostly in the Seattle region, i.e. not travelling in a remote region of this globe without email or internet connection...
• Here is a number of motivated devs and a loyal moderator of this forum who are standing by, waiting and waiting without receiving any kind of information from Chris about when he plans to reappear and to continue as usual ...
• So I ask myself, what kind of strange attitude does this reveal towards the people involved, towards the people who have committed themselves to collaborate with him since more than 5 years ??
  
  Does he expect us to just walk away??

The setup of Celestia development is such that it comes to a stand still without Chris approving new code. So, given the present situation, development is at a COMPLETE stand still since about July 1st!

Since neary 2.5 months...

Let me end by stating that personally I am VERY busy with other tasks, so I am NOT complaining for my own sake...

I am busy with lots of work to bring the new CelestialMatters Forum to live, to release my F-TexTools and --most of all-- to get ready for scientific visualization beyond Celestia via my ambitious Cosmological Visualization Project.

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Perhaps you have entirely different feelings from mine. I just find all this a pity and most of all, I am badly disappointed about the lack of style how this matter is handled...
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Bye Fridger

Let me ask:

1. In a worst case scenario (where Chris fades out for good), is there a will to fork Celestia and carry on in the dev group?

2. What kind of resources is needed to make that happen?

- rthorvald

Runar,

as I repeatedly stated on the basis of my first hand informations, I firmly believe that Chris one day will show up again as if nothing had happened. We had that before already ...

On the other hand, this does not mean that there won't be a fork of some sort in the near future.

My problem "of faith" is rather that all devs are somehow expected "by God's grace" to hang around here until Chris one day might be coming back.

This can't simply be it!

It would be so simple and everyone would understand and appreciate, if there was e.g. just a short email by Chris to some of his old collaborators at least, outlining his plans and anticipated schedule...so we all could plan.

Bye Fridger

I'm actually wondering why I am hanging around this project any more.

I recently (in the sense of a few months back) did a reinstall of my computer, and I have not got round to installing Celestia yet.

Either I go with the Celestia 1.4.1 version (now over a year old), or a prerelease which seems to have certain features removed pending a resolution of brightness effects that seems will never get resolved. and I'm not particularly interested in messing around with beta versions.

I do have some vague plans for doing a bunch of stuff on extrasolar planets, but given the apparent status of this project as abandonware I don't really have any impetus to do so.

Last time things were really interesting development-wise was the FT versions.

t00fri wrote:I firmly believe that Chris one day will show up again as if nothing had happened. We had that before already ...

I know the problem is the lack of communication, not that he isn??t here.. It is demoralizing.

But my questions are still relevant, since sooner or later the dev group will lose interest and find other things to use their time on if it continues to happen. I am very anxious that Celestia continues; since i don??t have the knowhow to code it myself, i must resort to ask, to see if there is any other way i can help ensure that it does.

- rthorvald

Well,

If one day I will have enough time for a fork project, I will definitely NOT continue with Celestia as it is defined today.

That is Chris' "baby" and whenever he decides to reappear, people will turn to him again, as concerns Celestia proper! Hence continuing elsewhere with the present Celestia layout does not seem to make much sense from my point of view. In my view it is a MUCH too narrow framework anyhow. Also there has been increasing emphasis of features, recently, that I am not interested in.

I am referring to features that notably the space agencies and related organizations want to see developed further. Stuff related to space craft orbits and orientation, for example. This may soon go on at a much intensified rate, since Chris is basically interested in a job related to Celestia. Who knows whether new employers are also happy with Celestia's present GPL2 license? They do like OpenSource but there are many (firm specific) variants these days...So in this game there are presently plenty of unknowns.

I rather want to see exciting realistic atmospheres, good stars and lots more deep sky objects ...And I have no professional constraints or desires related to Celestia.

If one day there is enough spare time for me to fork, the project will definitely be concerned about cosmological visualization YET starting at people's backyard. . Obviously, a lot of experience gained from my years of Celestia involvement will be part of this project as well.

Some more details you can read in our new CelestialMatters Forum.

Bye Fridger

Speaking just for myself as one of the devs eagerly awaiting Chris' return,
there are indeed a couple of bug fixes to the rendering core that I'd like to
run by Chris before committing to CVS.
That and the importance labels fix (done, just needs review).

The other stuff I'm doing like the supertabs experiment are just, well,
experiments. I'm all ready to get into "1.5.0 release mode"!

dirkpitt wrote:Speaking just for myself as one of the devs eagerly awaiting Chris' return,
there are indeed a couple of bug fixes to the rendering core that I'd like to
run by Chris before committing to CVS.
That and the importance labels fix (done, just needs review).

The other stuff I'm doing like the supertabs experiment are just, well,
experiments. I'm all ready to get into "1.5.0 release mode"!

It's a lack of respect to send at CVS a good code without having the Chris approval when Chris has been disappeared? (so speak a profane in matter).

Maybe we'll start hearing from Chris again when Seattle's rainy season starts, which shouldn't be too long now...

- Hank

hank wrote:Maybe we'll start hearing from Chris again when Seattle's rainy season starts, which shouldn't be too long now...

- Hank

Then it won't be long until the first snow...and so on...

-F.

Fenerit wrote:It's a lack of respect to send at CVS a good code without having the Chris approval when Chris has been disappeared? (so speak a profane in matter).

I would say it's less a matter of respect, than a matter of good software coding practice - BTW I commit changes to the Mac-specific code all the time even when Chris is not around, it's only when it comes to the parts Chris is in charge of (the core, Windows gui, etc) that I seek a review first. Often Chris has something better in mind, some "bugs" are false alarms, etc.

dirkpitt wrote:

Fenerit wrote:It's a lack of respect to send at CVS a good code without having the Chris approval when Chris has been disappeared? (so speak a profane in matter).

I would say it's less a matter of respect, than a matter of good software coding practice - BTW I commit changes to the Mac-specific code all the time even when Chris is not around, it's only when it comes to the parts Chris is in charge of (the core, Windows gui, etc) that I seek a review first. Often Chris has something better in mind, some "bugs" are false alarms, etc.

Oh, well. All this situation look like as in S. Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"! Very surrealistic.

Hey Everyone,

I have seen things like this all before from other projects and sites. From my own experiences over the years, it is often the persons private life that is causing the problem. I am speaking of the "significant other syndrome". Chris is still young, and probably has a steady or new partner in his life. This often causes things like long absences from projects to occur. As the person in question is spending there time or in some cases required to spend there time with said significant other. This is because they want to do all they can to please there significant other, to the disadvantage of friends and even family at times. This tends to put all other considerations out of there mind, as they center there orbit on there new star.

I can attest to this myself, as I went through it 2 years ago, and yes it does happen. I finally came to realizations about what was going on and made the choice that I didn't like who was becoming with this person and decided to end it. I am not saying this is exactly what is going on with Chris, but allot of you must know what I am saying here does happen, and it is a very common thing.

So what do we do about it. At this point there is nothing we can do. We have to wait. If we put to many demands or pressure on Chris, he could make a choice none of us wants to see happen. So at this point we all need to take a breath and play the waiting game. If we don't see some kind of sign from him in the upcoming weeks I think we might have to come to the conclusion that he may not be coming back. At least for a very long time. If that ends up being the case then certain choices will have to be made. Ether we all soldier on with Celestia in it present state, or we bail out, or jump ship, ect.....

I personally don't think we are going to hear from him for the next few months. I don't know if there is anyway to even see if he has been in the forum at all over the last few months, but i suspect he hasn't been around at all. So here we are waiting. I fear this time the wait is going to be a very long one. I am not sure I am going to go on waiting. I wanted to keep my work connected with the Celestia project but it is starting to look like the project is in a permanent state of hiatus.

So at this point I will continue to finish the projects I have on the table for Celestia, but I am not going to start anything new at this point. Any further works I do will be for my own professional use on other projects.

Don. Edwards

Don. Edwards wrote:
So at this point I will continue to finish the projects I have on the table for Celestia, but I am not going to start anything new at this point. Any further works I do will be for my own professional use on other projects.

Don. Edwards

I agree. Just people whom develop what is unrelated with the hard code can go ahead. So, in my humble opinion, let go ahead then waiting for the news, if it wish.

It DOESN??T MATTER that Celestia is a Chris Laurel??s creation.If he is no longer interested,someone have to TAKE IT FROM HIM,since we can??t wait much longer.His personal life HAVE to be taken aside and he MUST concentrate in Celestia!He need to make a choice...

danielj wrote:It DOESN??T MATTER that Celestia is a Chris Laurel??s creation.If he is no longer interested,someone have to TAKE IT FROM HIM,since we can??t wait much longer.His personal life HAVE to be taken aside and he MUST concentrate in Celestia!He need to make a choice...

Whoua... daniel, don't you think your tone is a bit too much dictatorial?

The topic here is not about a fork (not for now) but to push Chris to at least inform his collaborators (and why not the community) about those "blank" in the dev. It'st a question of respect and politeness I guess...

ElChristou wrote:...
The topic here is not about a fork (not for now) but to push Chris to at least inform his collaborators (and why not the community) about those "blank" in the dev. It is a question of respect and politeness I guess...

Christophe rephrased my main initial point very well, while a number of other writers above commented wrto issues that are of secondary relevance, really.

It is of course clear that noone would ever expect Chris L. to renounce a love affair in favour of some software project like Celestia . Really, Daniel you argue besides the point. And so did others.

Of course, as to these matters, I can only speak for myself:

In my own "environment" at least, I am just NOT used at all that someone keeps me waiting for 2.5 months without giving ANY kind of notice whatsoever!!!

Is this to be considered an OpenSource speciality or just bad style ??

There are a number of more or less nasty attributes anyone with a decent upbringing will start assigning to such a behaviour. In particular if long-time collaborators are concerned.

Bye Fridger

t00fri wrote:

ElChristou wrote:...
The topic here is not about a fork (not for now) but to push Chris to at least inform his collaborators (and why not the community) about those "blank" in the dev. It'st a question of respect and politeness I guess...

Christophe rephrased my main initial point very well, while a number of other writers above commented wrto issues that are of secondary relevance, really.

It is of course clear that noone would ever expect Chris L. to renounce of a love affair in favour of some software project like Celestia . Really, Daniel you argue besides the point. And so did others.

Of course, as to these matters, I can only speak for myself:

In my own "environment" at least, I am just NOT used at all that someone keeps me waiting for 2.5 months without giving ANY kind of notice whatsoever!!!

Is this to be considered an OpenSource speciality or just bad style ??

There are a number of more or less nasty attributes anyone with a decent upbringing will start assigning to such a behaviour. In particular if long-time collaborators are concerned.

Bye Fridger

Ok, Fridger. But seem to me that Chris has signed itself as member of CelestialMatter forum without send even a greeting there. How to consider that operation? If this topic want get his return among us, we need to send it as spam in his mailbox! Posting here whatever is related to Celestia's stand still doesn't raise his curiosity, neither that rose from you, just imagine from me.

Fenerit wrote:Ok, Fridger. But seem to me that Chris has signed himself as member of CelestialMatter forum without sending even a greeting there. How to consider that operation?

Well, some may consider this as a signature of a very efficient software engineer: never write one line too many

Bye Fridger

t00fri wrote:

Fenerit wrote:Ok, Fridger. But seem to me that Chris has signed himself as member of CelestialMatter forum without sending even a greeting there. How to consider that operation?

Well, some may consider this as a signature of a very efficient software engineer: never write one line too many

Bye Fridger

Ahaaaa... Just imagine for Celestia's code, then!