Celestia Forums

Hi everybody! I'll introduce myself:

Im from Spain, and after some years using Celestia, I considered i'm not a newbie anymore. Now I'm a semi-newbie, so i thought maybe I could help people who, as me, has some problems with the Celestia improvements, as better textures, meshes, normal and spec maps, extrasolar objects, etc.

So, here I am, with the first distribution ready, for posting and letting all you pr0s know that I will appreciate any help concerning to suggestions, things I gotta add and erase, and the millions of things i have to change until this is ready. As far as I can tell, it weights almost a full DVD (4,3 gb).

Distribution name: Celestia: an universal odyssey (for now) 0.1 Alpha.

Please, excuse my poor english and let me
know if I'm doing something wrong making this distribution. Thanks to all of you in advance:


Comets:

* Asteroid Model Replacements, de Jestr.
* Halley's comet XYZ, de Chris O'Byrne.
* Halley's Comet Mesh, de Jack Higgins.
* Catalog of comets, de Dirl.

Galaxys - nebulaes:

* M 31 Andromeda, de Reinhard F.
* M 33 NGC 598, de Jestr.
* M33 NGC 604, de Jestr.
* M 81, de AstroBoy.
* M 82, NGC 3034, de MindToAsk.
* M 83, de Dave Mc.
* M 90 NGC4569, de Reinhard F.
* M 91 NGC4548, de Reinhard F.
* M 96, de Reinhard F.
* M 101, de Reinhard F.
* M 104, de Reinhard F.
* M 108 NGC 3656, de MindToAsk.
* M 109 NGC 3992, de MindToAsk.
* M 64, de Reinhard F.
* M 65, de Reinhard F.
* M 66, de Reinhard F.
* M 88, de Reinhard F.
* NGC 2146, de Reinhard F.
* NGC 1300, de Reinhard F.
* NGC 2207, de Reinhard F.
* NGC 3314, de Reinhard F.
* NGC 3623, de MindToAsk.
* NGC 4314, de Dave Mc.
* NGC 4414, de Jestr.
* NGC 4565, de Reinhard F.
* NGC 4567 - 4568, de Reinhard F.
* NGC 4650, de MindToAsk.
* NGC 4650A, de Reinhard F.
* NGC 4676, de Reinhard F.
* NGC 6822, de MindToAsk.
* NGC 7479, de Reinhard F.
*110 Messier Objects, de Selden Ball.
*29 Messier Globular Clusters, de tirooly.
*Upgrade pack for M3, M14, M19 y M55 nebulae, de tirooly.
*M1, de Killeen.
*M16, de AstroBoy.
*M42, M43 & NGC 1977, de Praesepe.
*M51 & NGC 5195, de Jim.
*M57 NGC 6720, de AstroBoy.
*M2-9 de jll.
*MZ3, de jll.
*NGC 2264, de MindToAsk.
*NGC 3372, de MindToAsk.
*NGC 7293, de AstroBoy.
*Planety nebulae 1, 2 y 3, de Reinhard F.
*RCW 79, de jll.
*Scorpio Nebulae, de Jestr.
*V 838 Nova, de Meegja.

Databases:
*SDSS DR2 Galaxies version 2, de Selden Ball.
* Browndwarf texture (L and T type), de gradius_fanatic.
*Flare-textures, de Bob Hegwood.
*4K G Star Texture, de Tech Sgt. Chen.
*Johan Hevelius' Constellations, de Jestr. (high res).
*Mira, de Buggs Moran.
*Pulsars J0737-3039, de Cham.
*2 million stars database, de Pascal Hartmann, convertidos por Grant Hutchison.
*Earth Model 1x y Mars Model 1x, de GlobeMaker.

Real Spaceships:

*Hubble Space Telescope, de Jestr.
*Sputnik-1, de Kukanotas.
*Sputnik-3, de linuxman.
*Liberty Bell 7, de ElChristou.
*International Space Station (Orbit Data), de Adirondack.
*International Space Station Stage 13 + Texture Pack, de Orion_Nebula.
*Infrared Space Observatory, de Jack Higgins.
*Hubble Space Telescope (Orbit Data), de Adirondack.
*Corot Space Telescope, de Carlytos.
*Atlantis with Flight Deck, de ElChristou.
*New Horizons, de Jestr.

Sci-Fi:
*Discovery and its pod, de Cham. (2001)
*Station 5, de Jestr. (2001)
*Space Lift, de Thomas Guilpain. (2001)
*Babylon 5 Series 1-91 (Full Babylon 5 universe and ships), de bcelestia.
*Black Hole Cygnus X1, de Cham.
*Moons textures, de gradius_fanatic.

Moon:
*Lunar Landing & Crash Sites, de Jack Higgins.
*32K VT Moon Surface Map, de John van Vliet.
*4K Moon Normal Map, de Mattias Malmer.

Mercury:

* VT Mercury Surface Map, de John van Vliet.
* VT Mercury Normal Map, de John van Vliet.

Venus:

* 4K Venus, de Andrea. (Colour modified by LightTanis)
* 2K Venus Adapted Normal map, de maxim.

Mars:

*16K Mars M46 Shaded Surface & Normal Maps DDS VT, de Jestr.
*Mars Cloud Map, de John van Vliet.
*Phobos Texture, de John van Vliet.
*2K Deimos Texture, de John van Vliet.

Jupiter:

*4K Jupiter Surface Texture, de John van Vliet.
*Jupiter Clouds, de Pericapolis.
*2K Jupiter Night Texture, de John van Vliet.


Saturn:

*4K Saturn, de Runar Thorvaldsen.
*Postcards From Titan, de Runar Thorvaldsen. (realistic version).
*4K Saturn Rings, de Grant Hutchison.


Uranus:

*2K Uranus, de gradius_fanatic.

Neptune:
*2K Surface Map Neptune, de Dave Mc.

Earth:

*64K Blue Marble NG Specular Maps, de Fightspit.
*32K Earth Normal Map, de Jestr.
*64K Blue Marble Next Generation VT PNG, de Fightspit.
*32K Earth Night Map Mark II, de Jestr.
*32K Earth Cloud Map, de Harald Schmidt.

Sun:

*A portrait of our Sun, de Runar Thorvaldsen.


See you soon!

LightTanis wrote:Distribution name: Celestia: an universal odyssey (for now) 0.1 Alpha.

How will this be distributed? Are you making a webpage?

- rthorvald

I'll try to upload an Iso image when we get closer to the 0.3 or something like that, to download via Torrent client.

I think the best installation method will be attach the Celestia original distribution installer, and supply the directories textures, models, and extras, as well as the solarsys.ssc and celestia.cfg for overwriting.

LightTanis wrote:I'll try to upload an Iso image when we get closer to the 0.3 or something like that, to download via Torrent client.

Ok, that is an exellent idea. Be sure to keep all the original readme files and documentation in your package.

- rthorvald

looking at the size of this project I would suggest bittorrent

LightTanis,

Please don't forget to get permission from the authors of the Addons. Some of them have restrictive licenses.

Also, I would suggest using Zip format, not Windows installer.

There are many people using Celestia who do not use Windows.

Hi all.!

Hi Seldon, thanks for your beautiful addons.

Actually I was thinking in something like a mail per addon author, and asking for full permission for this distribution.
If anyone refuses, I can erase his content.
The amount of data let's me a difficult possition to attach all readme for all addons. I think this other idea may work.

About the windows installer, I can put the installer for Linux, Win and Mac on the Torrent, but the tree of directories will be the Windows one.
I hope somebody will join me in the project and help with this point. We will see, anyway.

Maybe if I put a web online this can work better???

Anyway, my Celestia looks incredible now with all this stuff

Any suggestions about the things I need to get inside and thing that I need to get out of the distribution?

That's quite an active forum, I like that... See you.

LightTanis wrote:The amount of data let's me a difficult possition to attach all readme for all addons. I think this other idea may work

No, you must include all the documentation: this is the key to get everybody to agree to let you use their content.

- rthorvald

No prob! Working on it, but surely tomorrow... today my brain is filled with pulsars.
Do you know if I can use a general folder called Documentation, to keep all readmes?
A little question: should i use the 1.5 version availible to download, or do i keep using 1.41? Thanks!

LightTanis wrote:No prob! Working on it, but surely tomorrow... today my brain is filled with pulsars.
Do you know if I can use a general folder called Documentation, to keep all readmes?

Why not keep them with the Add-On?

LightTanis wrote:A little question: should i use the 1.5 version availible to download, or do i keep using 1.41? Thanks!

Some Add-Ons only work with 1.41, and must be updated by the author for 1.5. That won??t happen before we have an official 1.5 to test with.

- rthorvald

Will there be at any present or future stage of your activity some commercial aspects be involved??

The given licences may stongly depend on this.

Bye Fridger

As long as there is no commercial aspect to this project and it will always be free, I have no qualms with my personal (re: Mira) work being used. One day, and I given up on setting deadlines, I will work on it some more.

Concerning my addons, the Readme file must be present in the addon folder, it's part of the license requirement.

Hi guys:

Only posting to say i'm working on a web to discuss more extensively this thing of the distribution.

I really would like if we all try to create a bigger Celestia, of course it would be for better computers. A great visual database of known universe, with some artistical. Reminds me of Foundation's encyclopedia.

So, for that, i'll try to get the web working in a few days in a free domain, let's see if we can work this out

See you all

LightTanis wrote:... About the windows installer, I can put the installer for Linux, Win and Mac on the Torrent, but the tree of directories will be the Windows one.
I hope somebody will join me in the project and help with this point. We will see, anyway.

There is a problem with Linux with the huge number of different distributions and packaging methods.
I would suggest to go the most straightforward way, betting that most Linux users are educated enough to be able to make their own manual installation.
This is how I would do (roughly):
- provide the full standard Windows Celestia directory tree, which is mostly the same in any Linux flavor, only differences possibly being the location of the tree in the file structure and the location of the binary executable (somewhere under /usr)
- provide two executables for the two more popular windows managers, one compiled with KDE and the other with GTK
- provide a basic how-to-manually install including:
---> where to put the Celestia tree
---> where to put the executable
---> where to put a symbolic link to the executable to make sure it is in the path
---> creation of a Celestia directory in the user's home directory where this user's config files will be living
---> how to check that the required libraries are on the system

This would provide a distribution-independent installation method.
By the way this is exactly how I maintain/update my Celestia installation. I never use any package nor do any "make install" after compilation.

This being said, it would be useful to have a complete compilation guide for Linux.
I see many Linux users stuck with obsolete packages or completely lost when there is no such package for their particular distribution.

Boux wrote:- provide the full standard Windows Celestia directory tree, which is mostly the same in any Linux flavor, only differences possibly being the location of the tree in the file structure and the location of the binary executable (somewhere under /usr)
- provide two executables for the two more popular windows managers, one compiled with KDE and the other with GTK
- provide a basic how-to-manually install including:
---> where to put the Celestia tree
---> where to put the executable
---> where to put a symbolic link to the executable to make sure it is in the path
---> creation of a Celestia directory in the user's home directory where this user's config files will be living
---> how to check that the required libraries are on the system

This is far from being user friendly. There is always the option to provide one big fat static binary and the data files could just as well be installed under the user's home directory. No need for complex installation instructions, everything could be done with the simple self extracting shell script, GoogleEarth is a good example of user friendly software distribution under Linux.

Boux wrote:This would provide a distribution-independent installation method.
By the way this is exactly how I maintain/update my Celestia installation. I never use any package nor do any "make install" after compilation.

If you use a prefix under /usr/local, as it is by default, there is really no reason not to run make install.

Boux wrote:This being said, it would be useful to have a complete compilation guide for Linux.

Right, but I'd much rather have Celestia more widely adopted by distributions. 1.4.x has never been released for debian based distributions just because of the incompatible lua header locations, this has been fixed a while ago in CVS, but until 1.5.0 is released debian users are stuck with 1.3.2.

Christophe wrote:... Right, but I'd much rather have Celestia more widely adopted by distributions. 1.4.x has never been released for debian based distributions just because of the incompatible lua header locations, this has been fixed a while ago in CVS, but until 1.5.0 is released debian users are stuck with 1.3.2.

I don't agree at all with your statements before the quote above, but this is just me.
Linux and user-friendliness is a joke.
And this is not just me.

Back to the quote above.
No distribution will ever package a beta 1.5.something Celestia.
It would be a waste of time when every other cvs update is badly broken.
You are talking about Debian which is just one distribution, even if you include its various - often much hyped - variants.
As far as I know, most if not all rpm-based distribs have 1.4.x packages available.
We all know that 1.4.x is deprecated. So what do we do?
There is no known development plan for Celestia.
One stable major version every other 12-18 months?
Why would any serious packager bother with unstable and bug-ridden cvs builds?
This is why I am saying that providing tested and reasonably workable binaries with instructions about how to make a customized installation - including how to install add-ons - could be a solution.
Once again, it looks like any constructive idea outside the little circle of the devs is not welcome.
I am just getting aware that I am wasting my time here.
I just will go on customizing and compiling for my personal use.

Well I have three little points:

-- the number of existing Linux distributions has become way too large that it is feasible for us to produce Linux binaries for Celestia 1.50. So tarballs is the option of choice leaving the work to the guys from the various distributions.

--I don't think that on average our CVS stuff is all that buggy. I rarely have compilation problems. And if I do, the problem is solved usually within a VERY short time.


-- People using "bleeding edge" hardware are naturally on their own. But this was always a problem with Linux, unrelated specifically to Celestia.

Bye Fridger

Boux wrote:Once again, it looks like any constructive idea outside the little circle of the devs is not welcome.
I am just getting aware that I am wasting my time here.
I just will go on customizing and compiling for my personal use.

I'm sorry you took my comment so negatively, that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to point out that there are alternatives to an all manual installation + instructions. Writing a shell script wouldn't take much more time than writing detailed instructions and would provide a much better user experience.

I gave the example of GoogleEarth, which gives IMO a pretty good user experience, and there are other cross-distribution packaging solutions: autopackage and klik for example, which might be worth taking a look into.

You say that 1.4.x is available on all RPM based distributions, but it is not on Suse, not a minor player. I'm not saying that distributions should package CVS versions, I'm saying Linux users should have access to the latest released version of Celestia, which is 1.4.1 (which by the way is not deprecated yet). The current situation is that: Knoppix, Linspire, Ubuntu, Debian, and Suse users among others don't have access to it. My point is that we should work to avoid the same problem from happening again with future releases.

The packaging and distribution of pre-release binaries is IMO a separate issue which has a lower priority on my list, but that's just me. I don't want to deter you or anybody else from offering distribution agnostic binaries, I'll help if I can.

Hi all.

After 2 days fighting with it, I finally achieved to make the vbulletin running. My knowledge of scripting, sql, or any other programing code are equal to 0 (i'm a designer) so it took more than I thought firstly.

Anyway, thanks for all those comments about the packaging, and linux, but anyway, I can't do any linux or mac distribution alone because I haven't got those SO and I don't know anything about them.

Thanks.

Edit: to say the forum address lol!.

http://celestiauniverse.ce.funpic.org/

Still dealing with the sections, and wellcoming suggestions!