Celestia Forums

Thanks for finishing the guide, Fridger. I have successfully completed step 3.5 and am currently DLing the 1.2 GB gz-packed input heightmap. I hope that converting this file goes just as smooth as the small one, and I can't wait to see the results.

Johaen wrote:Thanks for finishing the guide, Fridger. I have successfully completed step 3.5 and am currently DLing the 1.2 GB gz-packed input heightmap. I hope that converting this file goes just as smooth as the small one, and I can't wait to see the results.

Congratulations, Johaen!

Once you made it through 3.5, you are practically "safe" . Since everything is straightforward, once you have correctly installed all the required tools.

Good luck for 3.6!

cheers,
Fridger

Sorry,but it??s not for me.I don??t understand anything about DOS.The tutorial is TOO COMPLICATED.I will wait until some people made a 32k/64k normal map available on Motherlode.I really wait people don??t keep their normalmaps for themselves...

t00fri wrote:

Johaen wrote:Thanks for finishing the guide, Fridger. I have successfully completed step 3.5 and am currently DLing the 1.2 GB gz-packed input heightmap. I hope that converting this file goes just as smooth as the small one, and I can't wait to see the results.

Congratulations, Johaen!

Once you made it through 3.5, you are practically "safe" . Since everything is straightforward, once you have correctly installed all the required tools.

Good luck for 3.6!

cheers,
Fridger

danielj wrote:Sorry,but it??s not for me.I don??t understand anything about DOS.The tutorial is TOO COMPLICATED.I will wait until some people make a normal map and get available in Motherlode.I really wait people don??t keep their normalmaps for themselves...

Of course... No surprise.

I don't want to see normalmaps generated with my tools on Motherlode! While I cannot prevent it according to the GPL release conditions that I subscribed to, it will make me angry, nevertheless...

Bye Fridger

They could post in another server.It??s not necessary to be in Motherlode.But this copyrights things could block further Celestia improvement;it will be a pity,since no 32k normal map is adequate to BMNG...

t00fri wrote:

danielj wrote:Sorry,but it??s not for me.I don??t understand anything about DOS.The tutorial is TOO COMPLICATED.I will wait until some people make a normal map and get available in Motherlode.I really wait people don??t keep their normalmaps for themselves...

Of course... No surprise.

I don't want so see normalmaps generated with my tools on Motherlode! While I cannot prevent it according to the GPL release conditions that I subscribed to, it will make me angry, nevertheless...

Bye Fridger

danielj wrote:They could post in another server.It??s not necessary to be in Motherlode.But this copyrights things could block further Celestia improvement;it will be a pity,since no 32k normal map is adequate to BMNG...

t00fri wrote:

danielj wrote:Sorry,but it??s not for me.I don??t understand anything about DOS.The tutorial is TOO COMPLICATED.I will wait until some people make a normal map and get available in Motherlode.I really wait people don??t keep their normalmaps for themselves...

Of course... No surprise.

I don't want so see normalmaps generated with my tools on Motherlode! While I cannot prevent it according to the GPL release conditions that I subscribed to, it will make me angry, nevertheless...

Bye Fridger

Many people, EXCEPT apparently you, will be able to do their own normalmaps in any desired resolution. All that in a short time. Moreover, once understood, the tools allow to produce also the best, highest resolution normalmaps of Mars, for example.

It's of course your own decision that you never strive to learn new things. I am just curious, could it be that you are quite old?

Bye Fridger

I don??t think I will be the only one unable to make normal maps by my own.
I saw the tutorial and you are clearly talking in programming languages and putting programming lines.This interface is not intuitive and if you are not used to DOS,you will have a lot of difficulties.I really would like to separate final end users and developers.Only developers and some tech afficionados will produce very detailed normal maps.Final end users rely on downloads and are called like this because don??t have enough abilities to create your own textures,regarding the size and type.People that don??t know a bit of programming language,could end up messing up with the computer.Since it??s a DOS language;one error and you could even lose your computer.Sorry for complaining before,but I AM REALLY A FINAL END USER,and that??s all.

t00fri wrote:

danielj wrote:They could post in another server.It??s not necessary to be in Motherlode.But this copyrights things could block further Celestia improvement;it will be a pity,since no 32k normal map is adequate to BMNG...

t00fri wrote:

danielj wrote:Sorry,but it??s not for me.I don??t understand anything about DOS.The tutorial is TOO COMPLICATED.I will wait until some people make a normal map and get available in Motherlode.I really wait people don??t keep their normalmaps for themselves...

Of course... No surprise.

I don't want so see normalmaps generated with my tools on Motherlode! While I cannot prevent it according to the GPL release conditions that I subscribed to, it will make me angry, nevertheless...

Bye Fridger

Many people, EXCEPT apparently you, will be able to do their own normalmaps in any desired resolution. All that in a short time. Moreover, once understood, the tools allow to produce also the best, highest resolution normalmaps of Mars, for example.

It's of course your own decision that you never strive to learn new things. I am just curious, could it be that you are quite old?

Bye Fridger

Daniel,

as I said above, it's of course all your choice and not of my business.
Then I am afraid, I cannot help you.

Bye Fridger

Johaen wrote:Thanks for finishing the guide, Fridger. I have successfully completed step 3.5 and am currently DLing the 1.2 GB gz-packed input heightmap. I hope that converting this file goes just as smooth as the small one, and I can't wait to see the results.

Me, too ... step 3.5 (the exercise) was easy to do with the detailed instructions. Now comes 3.6 (the "real" thing)!
Thank you for providing the tools and your efforts with the tutorial, Fridger.
This will be of the greatest use for the whole community, as surely no one will deny.

Andy

I've completed the whole thing. I must say that you get the most awesome output of the images. But now for another question.

How do I get this beautiful texture into celestia?

Sorry for being so ignorant in the subject..

Thanks for the great tools.

Best regards, Anders

What are you saying?That I AM OBLIGUED to learn this complicated thing or I won??t have any high resolution normal map.It??s an absurd!I rather PAID for Celestia that have to face this absurd situation that Celestia development is blocked for copyright issues.If it??s copyright,it??s not free anymore.I am absolutely sure that many people won??t be able to produce your own normal maps,but these people won??t post frequently and will be in the same situation as me:with a product absolutely outdated and even if they have a superb video card,almost everyone will be happy with only 32 k textures and 16k normal maps and so on(since higher resolution normal and spec maps don??t work with BMNG and equivalent textures).Ok,I will give a try,but I don??t think it will work...

t00fri wrote:Daniel,

as I said above, it's of course all your choice and not of my business.
Then I am afraid, I cannot help you.

Bye Fridger

danielj wrote:What are you saying?That I AM OBLIGUED to learn this complicated thing or I won??t have any high resolution normal map.It??s an absurd!I rather PAID for Celestia that have to face this absurd situation that Celestia development is blocked for copyright issues

WHAT copyright issues? The tools are released under the same conditions as Celestia is: GPL gives you all the access to the programs you can ever want! That you choose not to learn how to use them is your own business, it is NOT a problem with the tools, only with your attitude towards them.

danielj wrote:Ok,I will give a try,but I don??t think it will work...

Very defeatist attitude...

I am not acquainted wit the command line either, but managed to learn it and produce my own normalmap in about an hour. Even if it takes you a *week* to get your head around it, it is doable.

- rthorvald

It??s easy to say.You are a DEVELOPER.
Of course it??s a "kind" of a copyright issue.Because,even if someone develop a new normal map,he can??t put in Motherlode because Fridger DON??T LIKE IT.It could be not a "paid" copyright,but it is a restriction,anyway.
You are being too optimistic.I don??t have time to spend hours and hours learning kind of language programming.And even I do so,I will take months or maybe years to learn something and by then,the textures will be absolutely obsolete.Why no one can put a new normal map in motherlode or another server?It had been AGES since I saw a new nice solar system texture and NOW I am OBLIGUED to produce MYSELF or I will have none.
It??s the same thing when anime and manga afficionados said to learn Japanese is easy.It??s not;and demands hours and hours of dedication,every week.The fact that most of them think it??s easy to learn a language with more than 2 alphabets is not guarantee that I can do the same.The same apply to some kind of programming language.
I really think I will be orphaned soon,which is a pity.Maybe I will have to GIVE UP because of Fridger??s intransigency...

rthorvald wrote:

danielj wrote:What are you saying?That I AM OBLIGUED to learn this complicated thing or I won??t have any high resolution normal map.It??s an absurd!I rather PAID for Celestia that have to face this absurd situation that Celestia development is blocked for copyright issues

WHAT copyright issues? The tools are released under the same conditions as Celestia is: GPL gives you all the access to the programs you can ever want! That you choose not to learn how to use them is your own business, it is NOT a problem with the tools, only with your attitude towards them.

danielj wrote:Ok,I will give a try,but I don??t think it will work...

Very defeatist attitude...

I am not acquainted wit the command line either, but managed to learn it and produce my own normalmap in about an hour. Even if it takes you a *week* to get your head around it, it is doable.

- rthorvald

danielj wrote:It??s easy to say.You are a DEVELOPER.

No, i am not.

danielj wrote:Of course it??s a "kind" of a copyright issue.Because,even if someone develop a new normal map,he can??t put in Motherlode because Fridger DON??T LIKE IT.It could be not a "paid" copyright,but it is a restriction,anyway.

It is not a restriction, just a request for courtesy. If anyone wants to share their normalmaps, there are many ways to do it.

danielj wrote:You are being too optimistic.I don??t have time to spend hours and hours learning kind of language programming.

This is NOT programming. It is a question of learning a few, spesific things your computer can do. It has *nothing* to do with programming.

danielj wrote:And even I do so,I will take months or maybe years to learn something and by then,the textures will be absolutely obsolete.

Why should that matter? The things you have learned will NOT be obsolete. And that is much more useful to you than the actual map you initially produced. It is like getting a key.

danielj wrote:NOW I am OBLIGUED to produce MYSELF or I will have none.

Welcome to the real world, then.

danielj wrote:Maybe I will have to GIVE UP because of Fridger??s intransigency...

I can??t believe you blame someone else for your own unwillingness to do a little work...

- rthorvald

Runar,

I certainly couldn't have answered better to Daniel's complaints. Thanks!

Bye Fridger

danielj,
As far as you saying that people are going to ruin there install of XP via the DOS command prompt is ludicrous. In order for anyone to do that they would have to type in the exact commands and syntaxes for it to happen. Fridgers tools no where even come close in syntax or wording to any of the commands that could do this in XP. So this part of you argument is just plain silly. I work on a daily basis with XP in the command prompt in my job so I can say this with strong confidence; you are not going to wreck your install of XP with these tools. It seems all you want is a GUI built app that you can drag and drop an image into and hit a button. This is the real world and even as far as Windows and even Mac OS X and Linux have come, there are still things that have to done via the command prompt/console. This is the real world we are talking about here. Just because you are not willing to bend and or to learn doesn't mean the rest of can't and won't. These tools are really no different than what Nvidia has had for years for making DDS textures and normalmaps. They are also command line instructions; I really just don't see your point as valid at this point.

Fridger,
I still haven't had a chance to look over the whole tutorial, but I am sure it will be quite helpful. But there is one sticking point I think you should simply not make any judgments or statements on. Please don't say you will upset or angry if your tools are used to create add-ons that one day will end up on the Celestia Motherload site. I don't have any real love for the site either as you know, but by making a sweeping statement as you did can be misinterpreted as a request to do so and it can be seen as a bit of a copyright request on your part. It will be inevitable that normalmaps made with your tools are going to get onto the Motherload eventually. I would just sit back and smile at the fact that they wouldn't have been able to make them at all without your work. That?€™s how I would look at it.

Don. Ewdards

Don. Edwards wrote:...
Fridger,
I still haven't had a chance to look over the whole tutorial, but I am sure it will be quite helpful. But there is one sticking point I think you should simply not make any judgments or statements on. Please don't say you will upset or angry if your tools are used to create add-ons that one day will end up on the Celestia Motherload site. I don't have any real love for the site either as you know, but by making a sweeping statement as you did can be misinterpreted as a request to do so and it can be seen as a bit of a copyright request on your part. It will be inevitable that normalmaps made with your tools are going to get onto the Motherload eventually. I would just sit back and smile at the fact that they wouldn't have been able to make them at all without your work. That?€™s how I would look at it.

Don. Ewdards

Don,

yes you are probably right from an objective point of view. Yet my relations with the Motherlode founders was SERIOUSLY disturbed by a really bad incident some time ago. I guess you know about this.

It is true that even before that incident I disliked the ML concept, since the trash to be found there is overwhelming. A newbie has no idea what to download, for example. Nobody there takes responsability that the add-ons are appropriately maintaind to conform with the ongoing development of the Celestia core code. Just to name a few serious conceptional issues.

Anyway, let me repeat clearly: The nmtools are released under the Gnu Public License (GPL), just like Celestia itself (with Chris Laurel owning the respective Copyright).

This means that despite my Copyright for the nmtools, people can use the nmtools, modify them, for example, and also upload the results to ML.

Yet I know, MY FRIENDS will NOT do this!

Of course, I am an experienced guy and certainly I am not naive!

People will certainly ask why I didn't spare the large amount of time it took to distribute a set of well-tested MULTI-platform tools and to write a detailed tutorial
for people to follow...?? Why did I want to make people experience the fun and satisfaction to complete such a challenge...?

Instead, I could have simply coded the tools "naked" so to speak and upload the result to ML. So-called "ENDUSERS" like Daniel would have happily jumped to the ceiling ...One click and the stuff is sucked down on peoples computers...

Perhaps a few of you will at last find out why I nevertheless followed the "hard road".

Bye Fridger

Congratulations to the CM team for the launch of the site. It was long in coming, but it was worth the wait!

I find the nmtools tutorial very good, it should be achievable by any interested and motivated user. However I fear I was quite right when, while testing the tools, I wrote to Fridger:

A GUI would be a nice addition too, as you mentioned yourself windows and mac users are not familiar with the command line and I'm sure many will not even bother with a non graphical application.

of course I find it sad that in our world of shiny clicky GUIs people are so easily rebuted when interactions require reading and writing, but it's a fact of life...

Anyway, now that the code is out, it's up to any interested developer to add a shiny GUI to these ugly evilish command line utilities.

And remember that in the beginning... was the command line.