Celestia Forums

http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

Back in 2003 Fridger wrote a useful script for auto-tiling virtual textures. But the script was last updated (AFAIK) in 2005. I recently installed Cygwin / ImageMagick / Netpbm according to the directions further in that thread. There *may* be an issue with the script and the current version of Cygwin. I could get the 2003 script in the original post to work, but not the latest 2005 script. This is the error message I get:



Also, there seems to be an issue with missing zsh startup files with the current Cygwin installation. I had to use bash instead. Here is the error message when using zsh is attempted with virtualtex:



Of course Z Shell was included in the download package (as per the instructions) and the files zsh-4.3.2.exe and zsh.exe are in the c:\cygwin\bin directory. Any ideas?

I'd also like to make a suggestion for the script. It was originally written before BMNG was realeased. Fridger added an option to the later scripts to specify the tiling of east or west sections of the 2-section older Blue Marble. But BMNG comes in 8 sections and it may be useful to be able to choose which of those sections to tile.

Lone

Sorry I am very busy professionally right now, but yes I have written a number of (unpublished) updates of my script. It would be good if you refer to the version number of what you are using!

In my later scripts, I have also implemented the most important feature of reducing the tile resolution towards polar regions. This is crucial for "monster" texures like 64k BMNG.

But I have not bothered anymore to publish my scripts, since many "expert Windows users" recently claimed they'd not even know where to find the standard Windows console....This sort of statement along with the reproach of not being pedagogical enough has strongly demotivated me as to going on with publishing my recently completed command-line tools.

Bye Fridger

t00fri wrote:Sorry I am very busy professionally right now, but yes I have written a number of (unpublished) updates of my script. It would be good if you refer to the version number of what you are using!

Version: 1.04, 02/15/05
http://www.celestiaproject.net/~t00fri/virtualtex

Lone

But I have not bothered anymore to publish my scripts, since many "expert Windows users" recently claimed they'd not even know where to find the standard Windows console....This sort of statement along with the reproach of not being pedagogical enough has strongly demotivated me as to going on with publishing my recently completed command-line tools.

So what? The real VT-makers will surely not bother you with questions like you did mention.
In addition, Bob wrote a very useful guide how to use Cygwin, IM and your script. This is an easy job even for windows console freaks.
In fact Cygwin is a DOS-box feeling where one just have to write some commands. Who would honestly complain about that?
So don't care what some few people say.

Adirondack

Adirondack wrote:

But I have not bothered anymore to publish my scripts, since many "expert Windows users" recently claimed they'd not even know where to find the standard Windows console....This sort of statement along with the reproach of not being pedagogical enough has strongly demotivated me as to going on with publishing my recently completed command-line tools.

So what? The real VT-makers will surely not bother you with questions like you did mention.
In addition, Bob wrote a very useful guide how to use Cygwin, IM and your script. This is an easy job even for windows console freaks.
In fact Cygwin is a DOS-box feeling where one just have to write some commands. Who would honestly complain about that?
So don't care what some few people say.

Adirondack

Ulrich,

just have a look what was written in this meanwhile locked and very popular thread (2770 read hits)

http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... 7&start=75

towards the end. I just tried to prepare users for our new nmtools by describing how to use the command-line to unzip large files and how to use STDIN/STDOUT redirection under Windows ...

The amount of questions was VERY high while apparently few cared to read & follow my answers, which took a lot of my time to write!

The general attitude expressed in this thread simply made me ask why I should go on spending my time for this. It appeared that many users find it way easier to reproach me being unpedagogical, instead of studying first carefully the manuals of THEIR OWN operating system (Windows)!


Bye Fridger

Like I said, I got an earlier version of the script to run, so it's not critical to me personally that the latest publicly available version works with the most recent Cygwin--especially if Fridger has chosen to devote his talents to something with much greater potential usefulness.

I'm going to use the script that works and finish a project I'm working on that will make many Celestia users happy, I'm sure. *Maybe* even Fridger.

Lone

LoneHiker wrote:Like I said, I got an earlier version of the script to run, so it's not critical to me personally that the latest publicly available version works with the most recent Cygwin--especially if Fridger has chosen to devote his talents to something with much greater potential usefulness.

I'm going to use the script that works and finish a project I'm working on that will make many Celestia users happy, I'm sure. *Maybe* even Fridger.

Lone

Lone,

thanks for your email. I still want to respond, but am presently too busy. It looks promising, but I first need some time for doing quantitative "comparison tests" with my own results that meanwhile are also pretty impressive.!

Bye Fridger

LoneHiker wrote:...and finish a project I'm working on that will make many Celestia users happy, I'm sure. *Maybe* even Fridger....

ElChristou wrote:

LoneHiker wrote:...and finish a project I'm working on that will make many Celestia users happy, I'm sure. *Maybe* even Fridger....

I think Lone's statement is indeed correct

t00fri wrote:But I have not bothered anymore to publish my scripts, since many "expert Windows users" recently claimed they'd not even know where to find the standard Windows console....This sort of statement along with the reproach of not being pedagogical enough has strongly demotivated me as to going on with publishing my recently completed command-line tools.

That thread was locked because you made no effort to explain yourself or what you were doing and why - not because of any generalised faults of windows users (specific users may have frustrated you, but that's entirely different). However, I don't think anyone could or did accuse you of not being "pedagogical enough".

If you aren't willing to accept that windows users are generally not as technically savvy and not as willing to go "under the hood" of their OS as linux users, then that's your decision. But a lot of windows users don't mess around with the console at all, particularly since Microsoft are trying to discourage use of the command prompt anyway.

The amount of questions was VERY high while apparently few cared to read & follow my answers, which took a lot of my time to write!

One or two people didn't, perhaps. But since your tools were apparently not even available it was probably a bit pointless to explain in such detail what you were doing, since nobody could replicate it.

The general attitude expressed in this thread simply made me ask why I should go on spending my time for this. It appeared that many users find it way easier to reproach me being unpedagogical, instead of studying first carefully the manuals of THEIR OWN operating system (Windows)!

I can assure you that the "windows manual" (not that one really exists) has very little to say about using the command prompt. If you want to blame anyone for that then blame microsoft - not the users.

At the end of the day if you don't want to write this sort of thing then that's up to you. Just don't blame the wrong people for causing you to come to that conclusion.

Malenfant wrote:
That thread was locked because you made no effort to explain yourself or what you were doing and why - not because of any generalised faults of windows users
...

That thread was locked because:

Selden wrote:Fridger and Malenfant,

You are both violating my most recent recommendation:
do not discuss other people's failings.

I'm locking this thread.

Malenfant wrote:However, I don't think anyone could or did accuse you of not being "pedagogical enough".

Did you really forget what you wrote? Here is a reminder,

Malenfant wrote:Fridger is IMO frankly terrible at explaining concepts and techniques to people, ...

or this one a little later:

Malenfant wrote:I've observed over the years here that your ability to explain things to non-experts is generally appalling, Fridger.
...
you are singularly unqualified to actually educate people, ...

Now since Malenfant is always right , this for me meant, that I spend my time otherwise!

There's a difference between "being pedagogical" and "being good at explaining things". It's quite possible for someone go into all the detail in the world and still have people not able to understand what they're saying.

Either way, if you don't want to write these things then that's up to you. But in the end that's your decision to make, and other people shouldn't be blamed for it - nobody's forced your hand here or told you not to bother, after all.

I'm not saying any of this to criticise or attack you, I'm just saying that you should understand that Windows users generally have a very different approach to how they use and intereact with their computers than Linux users. if you want to be helpful to windows users, then you need to realise and accept that, and work around that.

Given that Celestia is a cross-platform product, it's pretty much required that developers should have some tolerance for all systems used by those who use this software. We have a wide spectrum of users going from those who have pretty much no experience beyond clicking buttons in windows, to people who get in under the hood and recompile kernels. As such, developers (including yourself) should be prepared to face questions from users whose knowledge lies anywhere in that range, not just at the expert end.

LoneHiker,
Just to make sure, which instructions did you follow? The ones in Dummies.pdf?
I followed Dummies.pdf up to the point where it said install Image Magik.
I didn't follow those instructions to install IM. I installed IM from Cygwin. Run Cygwin setup again and check Graphics / Image Magik. NetPbm.

I have no problems running Fridger's virtualtex version 1.04 on cygwin. Just donwloaded it from your link above and it ran without problems. I did right click on the link and saved as. My current cygwin was installed last april. There shouldn't be much difference between then and now.

cartrite wrote:LoneHiker,
Just to make sure, which instructions did you follow? The ones in Dummies.pdf?
I followed Dummies.pdf up to the point where it said install Image Magik.
I didn't follow those instrutions to install IM. I installed IM from Cygwin. Run Cygwin setup again and check Graphics / Image Magik. Netpbm is your call. I don't think I installed it. Shouldn't matter though.

I have no problems running Fridger's virtualtex version 1.04 on cygwin. Just donwloaded it from your link above and it ran without problems. I did right click on the link and saved as. My current cygwin was installed last april. There shouldn't be much difference between then and now.

Incidentally, I also don't have problems running my version 1.04 of Cygwin. I actually just installed a new CYGWIN on my new Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz notebook. virtualtex 1.04 still runs fine.

Bye Fridger

As Fridger stated above, you shouldn't have any problems.
Here is a list of some files that may be missing from your cygwin installation that are installed on my system.
DEVEL
expat
gettext
libconv
libxml
libxml2
mktemp
pcre
pcre-deve
INTERPERTERS
expat
gawk
libxml2
UTILS
bzip2
cygutils
file
pcre

A lot of these files get selected automaticly as dependencies
Run the cygwin setup again. You don't have to unistall it. Do a stare and compare with the list.

I DID have NetPbm installed in cygwin.

cartrite

LoneHiker,
FORGET EVERYTHING I said. I just tried to add emacs to my Cygwin installation. A lot of things got updated. That really screwed up the works.
I'm currently working on the problem now. I'll let you know how I fixed it.
After the update, a setup srceen for zsh came similar to yours. My first attemt to configure zsh failed. I'm trying again. As for bash I get the same errors your getting. I'll try to find out why we are getting those too.
Virtualtex is usally run on my Linux systems so this is disaster. Just a pain in the.......

I hope noone copied virtualtex 1.04 by means of copy/paste with the mouse/cursor from the browser. This might actually replace a continuation of a line by TWO separate lines, with a <return> inserted after the first one!


Bye Fridger

Hi Fridger,

I'm addressing this to you specifically just to let you know I understand why you may be loathe to take on problems people may have with virtualtex and Cygwin. There are just so many variables--from user error to line ending issues to changes in Cygwin--that it would be a never ending prospect!

Understand I'm not asking for support from you--I know you are very busy and you have much better things to do! I'm just including the information below to illustrate how I've come to understand your position and also to show the kind of confounding problems that can rear up.

----------

I tried running 1.04 again, starting from scratch. Running in bash I get a totally different error message now:



This is very curious because as far as I can tell from the script that line is simply an echo that should read:



Removing these lines:



Gets the script running, but the tiles are named out1.png out2.png etc. In other words, the rename function mv is being ignored for some reason. I get this error after the tiles are created:



Obviously the totally different initial error message means a problem was introduced on my side. I read about the issue of Unix line endings in the original thread and I wouldn't be surprised if that has something to do with it. I understand copy-and-paste is a no-no and I saved the link as a file. But Firefox saves it as HTML and IE saves it as a text. I don't know if that could be a contributing factor. (I removed the extensions, of course. All editing was done in nano or a Unix-aware text editor.)

Lone

cartrite wrote:LoneHiker,
Just to make sure, which instructions did you follow? The ones in Dummies.pdf?

I tried both that and the instructions by wcomer in the original thread:

http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... c&start=30

Lone

LoneHiker,
I see what your going thru. I tried to install emacs and forgot to press the button at the top that says keep. All my files got updated. My cygwin is hosed. Not usable at all.
That zsh screen you see when zsh starts is a setup screen. You can press 1 to set things like command line history, etc. pressing 0 saves and exits.
The problem is that the virtualtex script is not being read the same ay it used to be. All the math and logic statements need a different syntax now. I haven't looked into that that may be yet.

The insult to injury is there is a prev button at the top that's supposed to install the previous version. When you try that installation there are 2 missing dll's that cause the installation to fail. Oh well I stll got Linux. That't where I do most of my work anyway.