t00fri wrote:I just wish this dispute could end now.
Yes, please.
t00fri wrote:... I am very sorry for what happened to your stepmother!
Thank you Fridger. I am sorry that I let this tragic event cloud my mind here, and let my emotions overcome my logics. My parents are 1500 miles away and I am unable to travel, which makes it that much more frustrating for me. Due to pain and medications, some days can be a real challenge for me to keep logics and emotions in balance. What I usually end up doing is writing much shorter sentences / replies, which are then sometimes misunderstood <frown>. I must stop doing this.
t00fri wrote:Be assured that I never had ANYTHING against you or your participation in the Celestia project,
Thank you for making this clear Fridger <smile>. You did however, leave it unsaid what it is you don't like, so I will assume (based partly on some of your comments) that it is probably my "cheerleader" style of "encouragement"? Sorry, that's just part of who I am. You may certainly question me about anything I write, at any time, instead of being concerned about what might come of it. Others have done this via PM from time to time and I appreciate it. Posts are easily modified <smile>. I promise not to bite your head off Fridger.
t00fri wrote:I admit that your initial "encouragement" ... sounded a little "patronizing" for my European ears;-).
Oh maaaaan! It surely was
not meant that way Fridger <frown>! Thank your for telling me what upset you. I had no idea.
To everyone who is reading this, if I ever upset you with something I write in normal conversation,
PLEASE write back and say so. I can't guarantee I won't say poor things in a heated discussion, but if I can maintain my "right mind" I will NOT.
t00fri wrote:Having collaborated so extensively with Christophe in the past, ... I am certainly not his "helper" ...
I don't recall seeing any messages posted by you in Christophe's newsgroup so I did not know if you even knew what was going on over there. I do not know of people's personal and/or Celestia-related relationships here, except for what I read in forum messages (and no, I've not gone back to day one of the forum's creation and read every message ever posted <smile>). And, I do not pry into any of this either. Thus, I am unaware of your prior collaborations with Christophe.
You were doing a bit of "bragging" about your perl skills so I merely did what seemed logical and asked if you wanted to put them to good use helping Christophe, where "helping" Christophe means simply that he has taken a "lead" position in the Repository project, which means other folks would be "helping him". Personally, I don't get into "ego trips" or being a "control freak", or any of that, so "helping" someone has a different meaning to me than to others.
t00fri wrote:And I am also very well informed about ongoing activities, without being "told" what is up...
Again, this was not meant to be patronizing. Noone can know everything about everything all the time (not even you Fridger). So unless I know a person is specifically aware of something, I would mention it.
t00fri wrote:I did take the Add-On Repository issue as a "trigger" to bring up the discussion about your "mass-programming" initiative of Celestia which indeed I was concerned about since this summer.
Did you really think my little inquiry message was going to bring in a flood of new developers (C++ coders)? I never thought it would, and it surely hasn't. This is an example where you could have certainly PM'd me with your concerns and I could have changed the post in some way. Please don't hesitate to PM me about things like this in the future, okay?
t00fri wrote:In any case, it is most desirable to continuously watch out for "new talents" notably also for "core" programming! I actually find it most crucial to have "new blood" joining in from time to time. Since there is, however, quite a bit more to it than mere knowledge of C++ coding, I am convinced that Chris' proven method is still the best, and that a general call for C++ volunteers is "suboptimal" to say the least...I also think that Christophe and Grant share this point of view.
For Celestia "core" programming, yes, I agree with everything you wrote. To define "core", I mean anything to do with celestial mechanics (computation) and OpenGL (display), which is 70%-80% of the code.
What my quick-and-dirty '
distorted "Celestia project" lists ' failed miserably at, was to list some major code sections OTHER THAN the Celestia "core" code, where people with different C++ experience (non celestial mechanics) can come into the project and help.
By adding names to things that I know some developers are *actively* working on (another miserable failure on my part), I was attempting to show the
way too many items that could be weighing on Chris' mind day and night, which is not good.
The end result was *supposed to* demonstrate that the Celestia project does indeed have room for a few more Developers (IMHO) -- as well as Contributors.
t00fri wrote:I am convinced that a "compact" number of well cooperating, active "core" developers, who all agree on the basic design philosphy of Celestia, but specialize in different aspects, can make excellent progress!
When they have
free time, yes. But, as you yourself have pointed out, health, personal, and professional committments can take their toll on "free time" that folks have to do Celestia work.
An example I offered early on was something about a Developer
having to write code that they do not like writing (can't quote it because shatters.net seems to be off-line right now and I'm working in a text editor). Chris jumped in real quick to say that he misses graphics and math coding when he's away from it for too long -- where "too long" could be construed as 10 seconds or 10 days <smile>. Rather, he's been working on bug / glitch fixes, which is probably boring him to tears.
This is one simple example where having a "debugger" Developer on the Celestia team would be a great addition! Chis could direct the person as to what code sections are probably involved and then let the debugger do the "dirty work", that they happen to enjoy, but Chris does not.
Another example might be ... having
you direct a seasoned C++ programmer to write code for the things on your TODO list. They are your ideas, your analysis, your design, but you don't have the time to code them. So, why not "mentor" someone else, who might not be nearly as proficient as you but has potential, and let them write the code for you?
Chris might also enjoy having another OpenGL person, who could do things like font development for foreign language character support, and much more.
Since one of my hobbies is digital video, I would personally love to see someone revamp the video capture code to capture the entire display and then reduce it to the selected frame size. This requires some expertise in video CODECs, capture coding, etc.
And, of course, entire sub-projects, such as the Add-on Manager / Repository.
These are only
simple examples Fridger, in an attempt to describe what my intention was. Did I succeed any better this time?
t00fri wrote:I sincerely hope that you read this message in the right way ...
Does this appear to be the case this time? I tried to use my normal (very lengthy) means of communication <smile>.
t00fri wrote: ... your distorted "Celestia project" lists! To make your point, it was entirely superfluous, to associate in public certain people with the various tasks, while ignoring boldly many former and present "main players". I am ready to believe that you did not do this on purpose, ...
I certainly do not do such things on purpose, as I wrote above. I sincerely do not have a clue as to who wrote what code in Celestia. And I was also sincere in asking you to correct this oversight. I think it would be a good idea to include
what the authors contribute (major items) in the AUTHORS file, so all of us know who to thank (or contact) for the various parts of Celestia. I am sorry that I did not know (or didn't remember) that you had written any C++ code in Celestia. I thought your name was on the developer's / author's list because you probably contributed a
lot of the physics basis (computations, etc.) to this project.
t00fri wrote:... and hence I am very sorry, if my remarks hit too hard...
Accepted, thank you Fridger.
I too am sorry for the words I wrote in anger / frustration of seemingly not being able to "get through to you" what I was trying to explain <frown>. Some days I wish the 'net was 10 times faster and live, international video conferencing was a reality. One day, maybe <smile>.
Cheers,
-Don G.
So, I'm not sure where you got the wild and crazy idea that 20 or 30 people would all of a sudden become Celestia "core" developers. I doubt that will ever happen.
