No Bump Mapping? Help.

Declan Royce · Post #1by **Declan Royce** » 29.06.2002, 00:18

I am using Celestia on an "Evil Kyro" 64mb video card. Does it not support the bump mapping or is it something I'm doing wrong. It's not that old, and it should be on par with the GeForce 2 or thereabouts.

I want bumbs.

Declan.

Post #2by **t00fri** » 29.06.2002, 00:29

Declan Royce wrote:I am using Celestia on an "Evil Kyro" 64mb video card. Does it not support the bump mapping or is it something I'm doing wrong. It's not that old, and it should be on par with the GeForce 2 or thereabouts.

I want bumbs.

Declan.

In the default setup you see bumps only for those planets having a corresponding bump-file attached in solarsys.ssc. Have a look: e.g. Mercury, I think Moon, too, Pluto?...

Go to Mercury and push repeatedly CTRL P. See a difference?

Of course other planets can also be bumpmapped.

Bye Fridger

Declan Royce · Post #3by **Declan Royce** » 29.06.2002, 05:18

First off, I have definitely verified that the Evil Kyro card supports two modes of bumpmapping.

http://www.paraknowya.com/articles/revi ... yro5.shtml

I did what you said and I still don't see any bumps. Close to the planet, it is smooth, far away, there is no texture. It's just smooth. I know that they have bitmaps associated with them, and they're turned on (no # in the code). I'm just sure this is supposed to be working.

The only guy in America pissed because he DOESN'T have bumps,

Declan Royce

Rassilon · Post #4by **Rassilon** » 29.06.2002, 08:05

Declan Royce wrote:First off, I have definitely verified that the Evil Kyro card supports two modes of bumpmapping.

http://www.paraknowya.com/articles/revi ... yro5.shtml

I did what you said and I still don't see any bumps. Close to the planet, it is smooth, far away, there is no texture. It's just smooth. I know that they have bitmaps associated with them, and they're turned on (no # in the code). I'm just sure this is supposed to be working.

The only guy in America pissed because he DOESN'T have bumps,

Declan Royce

It is possible that support for that particular card doesnt exist in the software...Is that card using a brand chipset? Invidia or Riva? If not that may be why you cannot see bumps in Celestia...where in other software you can...

Post #5by **t00fri** » 29.06.2002, 08:29

Declan Royce wrote:First off, I have definitely verified that the Evil Kyro card supports two modes of bumpmapping.

http://www.paraknowya.com/articles/revi ... yro5.shtml

I did what you said and I still don't see any bumps. Close to the planet, it is smooth, far away, there is no texture. It's just smooth. I know that they have bitmaps associated with them, and they're turned on (no # in the code). I'm just sure this is supposed to be working.

The only guy in America pissed because he DOESN'T have bumps,

Declan Royce :x

The only other possibility coming to my mind is that you are using Linux (you did not tell what you are using, so I guess, it's MS$). In this case bumpmapping is switched off by default in the 1.2.4 and leads to a SEGFAULT with external bumpfiles...

Bye Fridger

Declan Royce · Post #6by **Declan Royce** » 29.06.2002, 16:52

I'm using windows XP, and everything else about the card seems to work.

Buzz · Post #7by **Buzz** » 30.06.2002, 14:38

I haven't seen bumps with my GeForce 2 on win since version 1.2.4...

Post #8by **t00fri** » 30.06.2002, 17:12

Buzz wrote:I haven't seen bumps with my GeForce 2 on win since version 1.2.4...

This sounds crazy. Can you describe precisely what you did to see bumps?

I have Win ME with the latest detonator drivers for my GeForce 2 GTS and see very impressive bumps e.g. with Mercury. They may be switched on|off by pushing CTRL P and for Windows fragment and vertex shaders are on by default.

Bye Fridger

Axel · Post #9by **Axel** » 01.07.2002, 08:53

Hi Declan,

Declan Royce wrote:First off, I have definitely verified that the Evil Kyro card supports two modes of bumpmapping.

http://www.paraknowya.com/articles/revi ... yro5.shtml

Well, I do know the Kyros, but they are not very widely used. They use their own chipset and ,of course, driver.

Sure they've got bump mapping, but which one? There are several GL extensions AFAIK. Chris adopted Celestia to the two most widely used chipsets nVidia and ATI (he got no Kyro btw.) so you might be stucked with the situation.

I'd suggest to down the last available drivers for the card, start up Celestia and go to the 'Info' menu entry. If you click it, Celestia will display all available OpenGL extensions for the current combo of chipset and driver.

Post this @Chris here in the forum and you might get help

Otherwise remeber you're the only guy in America with a Kyro

Hope this helps,
Axel

Post #10by **t00fri** » 01.07.2002, 12:21

Axel wrote:Post this @Chris here in the forum and you might get help ;) Otherwise remeber you're the only guy in America with a Kyro ;)

Hope this helps,
Axel

He might also get help if he posts it to @t00fri;-) but this way I have less work...It is just a matter of comparing the displayed openGL extensions with what is needed in the code, where they are checked, before being used.
Chris may simply know it by heart...

Bye Fridger

Axel · Post #11by **Axel** » 01.07.2002, 12:42

t00fri wrote:
He might also get help if he posts it to @t00fri;-) but this way I have less work...It is just a matter of comparing the displayed openGL extensions with what is needed in the code, where they are checked, before being used.

I'm sorry, you're absolutely right, Fridger.

t00fri wrote:Chris may simply know it by heart...

Yeah, he had obtained a few of the standard cards to do some compatibility tests with them. So I thought he *might* have a Kyro as well. Unlikely, however

CU, Axel

Post #12by **chris** » 01.07.2002, 18:07

Bump mapping is currently only working on nVIDIA cards. I will (promise!) get around to writing a version that works on other cards using the texture_env_DOT3 (something like that . . .) extension that's part of OpenGL 1.3. But it's not there in 1.2.4, so you won't see any bump mapping on a Kyro.

--Chris

Redfish · Post #13by **Redfish** » 02.07.2002, 08:09

If also have a question about bump mapping.
Does the dds file already include a bump map?
Because i downloaded several bum maps, but they don't appear to have any effect on the out put of the picture.

Buzz · Post #14by **Buzz** » 02.07.2002, 08:10

t00fri wrote:
Buzz wrote:I haven't seen bumps with my GeForce 2 on win since version 1.2.4...

This sounds crazy. Can you describe precisely what you did to see bumps?

I have Win ME with the latest detonator drivers for my GeForce 2 GTS and see very impressive bumps e.g. with Mercury. They may be switched on|off by pushing CTRL P and for Windows fragment and vertex shaders are on by default.

Bye Fridger

Hi Fridger,

Thanks for your reply. I have win ME and a GeForce2 GTS too. I set a jpg or a png as texture, and a jpg as bumpmap. This always worked until version 1.2.4... Apparantly I am the only one with this setup having problems. Maybe I need a newer driver, though mine is fairly recent I thought.

Buzz · Post #15by **Buzz** » 02.07.2002, 08:12

Redfish wrote:If also have a question about bump mapping.
Does the dds file already include a bump map?
Because i downloaded several bum maps, but they don't appear to have any effect on the out put of the picture.

Unfortunately, bumpmaps don't work in combination with dds files.

Post #16by **t00fri** » 02.07.2002, 08:19

Redfish wrote:If also have a question about bump mapping.
Does the dds file already include a bump map?
Because i downloaded several bum maps, but they don't appear to have any effect on the out put of the picture.

It is important to distinguish between "dynamical" bumpmapping by means of an external bump file (assigned in solarsys.ssc) and "static" bumpmapping that people may have included into dds files by means of GIMP or photoshop. The latter version has the advantage that also /very/ large textures may be statically bumpmapped, while dynamical bumpmapping ends so far at 2k. The disadvantage is that the illumination always comes from a fixed angle that was entered in GIMP once for all.

Bye Fridger

Axel · Post #17by **Axel** » 02.07.2002, 10:49

Hi Fridger,

t00fri wrote:It is important to distinguish between "dynamical" bumpmapping by means of an external bump file (assigned in solarsys.ssc) and "static" bumpmapping that people may have included into dds files by means of GIMP or photoshop.

Each has it's benefit's, each has it's disadvantages, as always. :roll:

Which version of bumpmaping did you use in your textures?

Take care, Axel

Post #18by **t00fri** » 02.07.2002, 11:46

Axel wrote:Hi Fridger,

t00fri wrote:It is important to distinguish between "dynamical" bumpmapping by means of an external bump file (assigned in solarsys.ssc) and "static" bumpmapping that people may have included into dds files by means of GIMP or photoshop.

Each has it's benefit's, each has it's disadvantages, as always. :roll: Which version of bumpmaping did you use in your textures?

Take care, Axel

I used exclusively static bumpmapping for 2 reasons:

1) Most uf us are interested in hires textures in these days. Dynamical bumpmapping is presently restricted to "small" files (2k)

2) Dynamical bumpmapping still does not work at all in Linux and we do not know yet why.

Bye Fridger

Buzz · Post #19by **Buzz** » 05.07.2002, 09:31

I take back everything I said about dynamic bumpmapping not working in 1.2.4! It was all my mistake. Somehow the bumpheight was commented out :(

Post #20by **t00fri** » 05.07.2002, 09:43

Buzz wrote:I take back everything I said about dynamic bumpmapping not working in 1.2.4! It was all my mistake. Somehow the bumpheight was commented out :(

Thanks for telling. Of course, this is important info in case of future possible claims of problems...

You may recall this lengthy bug discussion we had with some Mandrake 8.2 users that claimed that Celestia cannot be compiled due to stricter gcc 3.x policies compared to gcc 2.96 and renaming of g++ libs. Yet anothere Mandrake 8.2 user (CroMaat) more recently did apparently have not problems at all...Small differences may simply have large effects in this business;-)

Bye Fridger

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