Celestia Forums

It was noticed today, that the Motherlode has became somewhat glitched or not being rendered properly. In relation to that, and its possible shutdown, should we make a new website for a New Motherlode?

How the Motherlode appears to me now: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/5626467470 ... 649985495471751168/unknown.png

Update: Not working anymore: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/5626467470 ... 649986961225809925/unknown.png

Currently, its on a so-called quantum state, where its both working and not working at the same time:

Gurren Lagann wrote:Currently, its on a so-called quantum state, where its both working and not working at the same time:

That looks terrible indeed. All the more reasons why we need to find a new place for all our addons

Should be a good idea to create a new website

Apart from the occational seizures the motherlode seems to experience, even operational something has to be done. It's hardly even maintained, the website is not up to modern standards and it doesnt even make use of proper user account making it prone to abuse. There's also this 8 MB upload limit thats quite awkward to circumvent. Not to mention most addons are already outdated.

So yeah, we need a new motherlode in some form.

I agree with this one ~ The Motherlode is where a lot of beginners get their addons and I feel like the quality needs to be updated so that people don't download a 1K map of Rhea thinking it's high quality - in addition a lot of the addons are corrupted as well. All of our current addons are too scattered around since the Motherlode was last updated like last year...

As I said on the Discord: who has a web server?

I don't have a web server and I've deleted my Discord account.

But I do believe very strongly that we should make a new motherlode, perhaps with any addons that have been removed from visibility from the old one.

Also considering how the Motherlode is now confused on whether it will display correctly.

Doesn't that happen on every website if it doesn't load correctly; internet connection fluctuations being an example?

SevenSpheres wrote:who has a web server?

Well, if no one has a web server, how do we create one? And do we have to pay a subscription for it?

Joey P. wrote:Doesn't that happen on every website if it doesn't load correctly; internet connection fluctuations being an example?

The issue is exactly that; the Motherlode isn't loading correctly.

Lafuente_Astronomy wrote:Well, if no one has a web server, how do we create one? And do we have to pay a subscription for it?

Actually, a quick Google search shows that pretty much any PC can be used as a web server. So I guess the question is now meant seriously, and rephrased to: who is willing to take the time to set up and maintain web server software?

Something that I also noticed is that apart from the main page no longer displaying correctly, the addon subpages won't load at all. Instead, they just lead to a page that says "HTTP Error 500."

There are any number of online hosts, but few worth risking your data on.
I use one for my stuff, as do many of my customers.
Has a lot of advantages, including true control of your e-mail.

As for paying for it, it isn't that expensive.
Plan on $5->$12 per month, US dollars, if done yearly.
Perhaps a patreon, or some other donation service can provide a funding path.

The better hosts will allow multiyear prepays which will bring down the per month.
Unless someone is rich, it will be shared hosting, get used to it, and they mostly provide plenty of performance.
VPS or private server varies from very expensive to VERY! expensive, and is not needed for a primarily archive site
If the site activity affects others hosted on the same site, the better hosts will tell you instead of just turning you off.

Ignore the single domain, or limited domain plans.
Ignore the subdomain limited plans.
Ignore the storage limited plans.
Ignore the email limited plans.
Ignore the DB limited plans.
Ignore the plans without the option of svn or git or an equivalent being available.

Since this is a starter project, consider trying dreamhost shared unlimited.
Which is $5.95 (US) per month done yearly, and has a 97-day money back guarantee.
They also provide lets encrypt SSL certificates as part of the hosting plan.
Several customers have said they are are easy to deal with, and helpful, even if a little abrupt depending on the individual.

Some sort of plan will be needed for organizing the files, which there are a lot of.
I have crawls of motherlode, spatial & matters, done via httrack, totaling ~90Gb.
I have no doubt there are more I have missed.
I have lacked the time to try to sort them, or eliminate the inevitable duplicates.


Janus.

Janus wrote:There are any number of online hosts, but few worth risking your data on.
I use one for my stuff, as do many of my customers.
Has a lot of advantages, including true control of your e-mail.

As for paying for it, it isn't that expensive.
Plan on $5->$12 per month, US dollars, if done yearly.
Perhaps a patreon, or some other donation service can provide a funding path.

The better hosts will allow multiyear prepays which will bring down the per month.
Unless someone is rich, it will be shared hosting, get used to it, and they mostly provide plenty of performance.
VPS or private server varies from very expensive to VERY! expensive, and is not needed for a primarily archive site
If the site activity affects others hosted on the same site, the better hosts will tell you instead of just turning you off.

Ignore the single domain, or limited domain plans.
Ignore the subdomain limited plans.
Ignore the storage limited plans.
Ignore the email limited plans.
Ignore the DB limited plans.
Ignore the plans without the option of svn or git or an equivalent being available.

Since this is a starter project, consider trying dreamhost shared unlimited.
Which is $5.95 (US) per month done yearly, and has a 97-day money back guarantee.
They also provide lets encrypt SSL certificates as part of the hosting plan.
Several customers have said they are are easy to deal with, and helpful, even if a little abrupt depending on the individual.

Some sort of plan will be needed for organizing the files, which there are a lot of.
I have crawls of motherlode, spatial & matters, done via httrack, totaling ~90Gb.
I have no doubt there are more I have missed.
I have lacked the time to try to sort them, or eliminate the inevitable duplicates.


Janus.

That would be a good suggestion actually. Perhaps we can try that, and once we have it, we'll just have to start a patreon for the monthy payment of the domain. Although it would be better if someone who has a job will pay the domain in behalf of us, I would prefer that since this is a community domain, not a personal domain, that members who can afford to pay should pay, not just a single member.

Lafuente_Astronomy wrote:That would be a good suggestion actually. Perhaps we can try that, and once we have it, we'll just have to start a patreon for the monthy payment of the domain. Although it would be better if someone who has a job will pay the domain in behalf of us, I would prefer that since this is a community domain, not a personal domain, that members who can afford to pay should pay, not just a single member.

Or someone with enough storage space can make their PC into a web server. Then there would be no need to pay for web hosting, only a domain name. I would think setting up the software would be completely free, but difficult and time-consuming. Whether this is preferred to paying for hosting is up to the community to decide. If someone does this, I can send them the addon files, since I've downloaded the entire creators directory using wget.

@SevenSpheres

The space is not the issue, nor is the server ware.
Any Linux machine can host, as can any windows machine using Xampp or equivalent.
Setup is easy, I have several hosts on my lan for various jobs.

The problem is linking the domain to an address.

Most ISPs use a form of DHCP, which means that while your IP address may be stable in the short term.
In the long term it can change without notice, and more than once after being stable.
Dynamic DNS, the solution to this problem, has issues of its own.

The second issue is that most home connections have port 80 hosting blocked, along with a list of other ports incoming.
This is done to prevent virus' using compromised home system,s for spam purposes, a problem that used to be common.

The third issue is upload bandwidth.
Cable, ISDN & DSL connections have very limited upload bandwidth.
Using that upload bandwidth restricts the ability to download.
The only people who have a prayer of doing this are those with symmetric connections like google fiber.
Even though they are tolerant, they will eventually say something, and other providers are non tolerant.

Fourth issue, almost universally, home hosting of content violates TOS.
The only way around this is to use bittorrent, which being a distributed system, edges into forced tolerance.
Which then brings up other issues, potentially legal ones.
Anyone connecting to your seed who is also connecting to or has an illegal seed, can implicate the host in illegal activity.
MPAA & Law enforcement have a sue/raid/arrest first, ask questions only if forced to mentality when bittorent is detected.

Which brings us back to a hosting provider.
Using one of them would also allow for the domain to be mapped to something like addons.celestia.space despite being hosted somewhere else.
This leaves open the idea of combining the two since many hosts, dreamhost in this case, offers unlimited domains on the account.
In this case if Celestia.space were moved and everything combined, as long as the forum didn't disrupt others on the shared server, costs would be very low over all.
It would also allow for subdomain hosting of addons & origins both, for the cost of a single domain.
Which could give

http://www.celestia.space
http://addons.celestia.space
http://origins.celestia.space

For the same cost as http://www.celestia.space alone.
As long all of the files are open, web linked from elsewhere on the domain, space is not an issue, & bandwidth is not an issue.
Just some random musings.


Janus

I use my server for some of my own stuff, it seems they provide really good service, rarely down, and also they have free backup service along with the package

Janus wrote:The space is not the issue, nor is the server ware.
Any Linux machine can host, as can any windows machine using Xampp or equivalent.
Setup is easy, I have several hosts on my lan for various jobs.

The problem is linking the domain to an address.

Most ISPs use a form of DHCP, which means that while your IP address may be stable in the short term.
In the long term it can change without notice, and more than once after being stable.
Dynamic DNS, the solution to this problem, has issues of its own.

The second issue is that most home connections have port 80 hosting blocked, along with a list of other ports incoming.
This is done to prevent virus' using compromised home system,s for spam purposes, a problem that used to be common.

The third issue is upload bandwidth.
Cable, ISDN & DSL connections have very limited upload bandwidth.
Using that upload bandwidth restricts the ability to download.
The only people who have a prayer of doing this are those with symmetric connections like google fiber.
Even though they are tolerant, they will eventually say something, and other providers are non tolerant.

Fourth issue, almost universally, home hosting of content violates TOS.
The only way around this is to use bittorrent, which being a distributed system, edges into forced tolerance.
Which then brings up other issues, potentially legal ones.
Anyone connecting to your seed who is also connecting to or has an illegal seed, can implicate the host in illegal activity.
MPAA & Law enforcement have a sue/raid/arrest first, ask questions only if forced to mentality when bittorent is detected.

Hmm okay then. Paying for web hosting it is. I like addons.celestia.space as a URL.

addons.celestia.space does sound good SevenSpheres.